Re: Jerusalem

Please can you draw a line under this bitching, bickering and sneering sarcasm.

It's bloody embarrassing to read coming from alleged adults who just make themselves look petty.

Why does it always ending up knocking someone for their religion?
For those who don't believe it ...fine ... but be aware that it is of vital importance to all sides involved in the ME conflict.
For that reason alone it helps to know a bit about it.

If you want to disregard the ancient religious and biblical element .. fine, it is heavy going stuff .. but then remove it for all.
Dismiss Christians, dismiss Allah and dismiss all Jewish claims to Jerusalem. There are no sacred sites, no Divine Right to claim any territory as belonging to any Chosen people.
Bin it, it's all superstition and means nothing.

And to start giving lectures about racism * rolls eyes* .. gee, someone will be throwing the blackboard rubber next.

I really wouldn't mind if wasn't so obviously a tactic to kill off a decent discussion for those who actually want to debate versus those who really have nothing to contribute.

Re: Jerusalem

And the Israeli's believe that Jerusalem should be theirs as it was their Promised Land given to them by God.
I take it, as you're so critical and sceptical of all things religious that you don't believe that just cause for their claims too.

Note: People who criticise the Israeli government are not criticising Jews or the Israeli people.
You ought to go back to school JBR .... when did you retire?

Re: Jerusalem

Huh?
I'm guessing that was just nasty sarcasm or for the life of me I don't think you know much about any denominations or particle branches of any faith.
Wouldn't surprise me if you said next that a Jesuit was a Jewish priest.

Re: Jerusalem

If we're going to go down the differing religons and faiths.

It was mentioned a few pages back that Muslims, followers of Islam fight each other and it was claimed Jews don't and are one happy, peaceable tribe.

Islam: There is Shiite and sunni, Wahabi (latecomer Sunni) and Alawite (a branch of Shiite) and probably many more offshoots I don't know of.
But ... before it is claimed that Jews are one peaceable people ... aren't there Israelites and Judeans and Samaritans?
I admit I don't know too much about their various offshoots.

I do know Samaritans and Jews have no time for each other and yet Samaritans too follow Yahweh .
They could be called the oldest original Jews. Yet they are part pagan and part Jew. They do not recognise Jerusalem as the prime, most important religious site, instead they still use the earlier, original and more ancient temple site of Mount Gerizim.

Then there's the Jewish community in Stamford Hill who put up signs telling women they could only walk on one side of the street. Who were they? Ultra-Orthodox?

Religion. Who needs it. I do tend to agree it is the root of all Evil.
I blame it on Gobekli Tepe ( the world's first temple?).. it all started there.

Re: Jerusalem

I have not yet seen in the course of this discussion any rational arguement put forward as to why Jerusalem should not be the capital of Israel .

It is not for others to dictate to the Israelis what they can do .
Not the Palestinians , not the leftie hand wringers ,not the 'international community ' whatever that is , not other Muslims countries ,not even people worried about the Christian holy sites .
It's none of their business whatsoever .

Historically Jerusalem has only ever been important to the Jews .
The Muslim ottomans ruled it for over 300 years .
They never made it a Muslim capital in fact Jerusalem was an old desolate city.
Mark Twains remarked as such when he visited he found the whole land empty and desolate .
During 1948 and 1967 when Egypt occupied Gaza and Jordan occupied the West Bank neither country gave any of it to Palestinians ( for one reason the term hadn't been invented then for Palestinian Arabs)
Jordan didn't offer Jerusalem for the capital of a Palestinian state .
Not a bit of it ,it was one of King Husseins great mistakes to take up arms against Israel with the rest of the Arab world .
Had he not the West Bank would still be part of Jordan .
It would not have been given to the Palestinians much less as their capital city .So why only is it now that it becomes so important ?
The reason
Because the Jews have it .
Not only do they have it they have made it a thriving successful city and their country the envy of many .
So the Palestinians want it and think they deserve it .
And it would seem that everyone thinks that the Israelis should meekly hand it over .
Why should they ?
They ( the Palestinians) don't want Jerusalem they just want to pick a fight .
They want the whole of Israel so they can turn it into another failed Middle East state .

Re: Jerusalem

Well said, Muddy.

Re: Jerusalem

good sound debating - no puddling; mucking or ducking heh!

Re: Jerusalem

There's a couple on here must have repetitive strain injury by now with the amount of sycophantic backslapping they're engaging in.

I'm limited in my right to reply ... but can see nothing more than a jingoistic happy clappy defence of all things Israel ... and none shall shine so brightly as the Star of David .. whilst apparently the Palestinians are relegated to a subsidiary role.
No wonder the peace process is floundering with such a limited, narrow-minded, biased view.

It would seem that Israeli supporters, whilst stating it is not for anyone to dictate what Israel can do ... are hypocritically happy to dictate to Palestinians what they can do or indeed, include in their ridicule and antipathy anyone who happens to think some of the Israeli's actions or policies are flawed at best or provocative at worst.
Israel is truly in dire need of some better ambassadors.

Re: Jerusalem

Here's a new development that could be interesting ...or considered more provocation.
I sincerely hope it comes to nothing.

After Jerusalem Is the Golan Heights next?

Israel is pressing the Trump administration to recognize its sovereignty over the occupied Golan Heights, an Israeli cabinet minister said on Wednesday, predicting U.S. assent could come within months.

It was captured from the Syrians 51 years ago in the 1967 war.
Israeli settlers moved into the area.
And annexed the territory in 1980 .... which is not officially recognised.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKCN1IO2YU

To me, this seems land grab pure and simple. It's one thing to claim Israel need to defend themselves and safeguard their own security but riding high on a wave of support from Trump they're now risking turning into one of the main aggressors in the ME.
Do they really seek a peaceful solution or just provocation?

I wonder how the world would react if any other ME country filched land from Israel, occupied it and annexed it?
Would there be an outcry or call to arms to restore it back to them?

Aiding Peace In The Middle East - The Israeli Way.

Re: Jerusalem

Eh, what? The city is made of all the different occupants and histories. The architecture tells the story of all who have loved and owned this beautiful city. Wake up and see the reality. It is not a Jewish, Muslim or Christian City. It is all three. The reality is there in the walls, in the houses and in the streets.