11-10-2017, 06:08 PM
31
Re: Brexit Talks New Agenda.
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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HiWe voted to leave, it was our decision, and to my mind, the correct decision.
What I do not understand is this continued blaming of the EU for the state of the negotiations.
We are now a competitor, we are being treated as such.
I am not surprised, neither am I angry.
It is the way of the world and we would have done the same.
All Countries are seeking a competitive advantage for their own economies and their own people.
I would hope that we are as ruthless in seeking advantages when it comes to Trade Deals.
If someone wants to leave your club, you expect them to honour any financial commitments they’ve signed up to during their membership and not to whinge about not be able to retain membership benefits - let alone be able to selectively retain those benefits.
The EU made their negotiating approach and position very clear but the UK government either wasn’t listening properly or were too arrogant and over confident of their value to the EU to believe that they were serious.
11-10-2017, 06:16 PM
32
Re: Brexit Talks New Agenda.
Originally Posted by Tartlet
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What a sensible post. I voted differently to you but fully agree with what you’re saying about the EU’s approach to the negotiations. If someone wants to leave your club, you expect them to honour any financial commitments they’ve signed up to during their membership and not to whinge about not be able to retain membership benefits - let alone be able to selectively retain those benefits.
The EU made their negotiating approach and position very clear but the UK government either wasn’t listening properly or were too arrogant and over confident of their value to the EU to believe that they were serious.
Moreover, the EU have yet to explain how they have arrived at their figures of £100 billion (or Euros, or various other figures I've heard about).
Even better, I have read that we should be demanding money from them for the many investments, into infrastructure for example, we have made over the past 40 years.
11-10-2017, 06:31 PM
33
Re: Brexit Talks New Agenda.
Originally Posted by JBR
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And yet at least some of our politicians have assured us that we are not obliged to pay the EU anything at all.Moreover, the EU have yet to explain how they have arrived at their figures of £100 billion (or Euros, or various other figures I've heard about).
Even better, I have read that we should be demanding money from them for the many investments, into infrastructure for example, we have made over the past 40 years.
I forgot to say that I understand that the refund of asset shares is on the table for discussion.
11-10-2017, 06:36 PM
34
Re: Brexit Talks New Agenda.
Originally Posted by JBR
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And yet at least some of our politicians have assured us that we are not obliged to pay the EU anything at all.Moreover, the EU have yet to explain how they have arrived at their figures of £100 billion (or Euros, or various other figures I've heard about).
Even better, I have read that we should be demanding money from them for the many investments, into infrastructure for example, we have made over the past 40 years.
You mean the figure that seems to change every nano second without explanation? It's as if they are making it up as they go along and pulling figures from the air!
Have they even clarified what this unenforceable / non payable, imaginary Brexit bill is for?
As far as I'm aware, we don't owe them a bean from the day we leave.
11-10-2017, 08:28 PM
35
Re: Brexit Talks New Agenda.
Originally Posted by AnnieS
->
Respecting democracy and being capable of delivering such a complicated mix of voters' desires with so many variables to tie up and agree, are two different things entirely. Every election we vote for manifestos which never deliver even half the pie in the sky promises. Nobody bleats that democracy has not been respected. At least they are taking Brexit forward and having negotiations. Every voter seems to have a different wish list which nobody can possibly fulfil. The choices on the vote card were stay or leave, not a panoply of conditions longer than all the letters to Santa.
Given the history of our Government ability to deliver on promises or implement change effectively, I am not sure why anyone is surprised they are having difficulty in this incredibly complicated change.
The EU made their views on Brexit patently clear before the referendum
The two are not comparable unless you are politically immature or being disingenuous.
A referendum and a general election are entirely different in their nature.
You should stop listening to failed idiots like Nick Clegg and start analysing the situation for yourself.
As for the EU making their position clear......that was the moment we should have taken to the streets and demanded immediate withdrawal from the monstrous and oppressive organisation.
11-10-2017, 08:35 PM
36
Re: Brexit Talks New Agenda.
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
->
HiWe voted to leave, it was our decision, and to my mind, the correct decision.
What I do not understand is this continued blaming of the EU for the state of the negotiations.
We are now a competitor, we are being treated as such.
I am not surprised, neither am I angry.
It is the way of the world and we would have done the same.
All Countries are seeking a competitive advantage for their own economies and their own people.
I would hope that we are as ruthless in seeking advantages when it comes to Trade Deals.
The EU are acting the way they are out of anger and fear.
Their actions are nothing to do with trade or us being a competitor and everything thing to do with the existential threat that Brexit highlights.
If the EU were looking after their financial and trading interests they would be looking to treat us as a trading partner with whom they can do a lot of high value and high quality business and trade.
Your view on the matter does not add up in the slightest.
11-10-2017, 09:11 PM
37
Re: Brexit Talks New Agenda.
Originally Posted by Moscow
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Unfortunately you have mixed up a political party's manifesto hope list with a definitive referendum choice.The two are not comparable unless you are politically immature or being disingenuous.
A referendum and a general election are entirely different in their nature.
Originally Posted by Moscow
->
You should stop listening to failed idiots like Nick Clegg and start analysing the situation for yourself.
11-10-2017, 11:04 PM
38
Re: Brexit Talks New Agenda.
Originally Posted by Moscow
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Unfortunately you have mixed up a political party's manifesto hope list with a definitive referendum choice.
I'm afraid she's another one who makes all sorts of claims but can't back them up with evidence.
12-10-2017, 03:32 AM
39
Re: Brexit Talks New Agenda.
Originally Posted by Moscow
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That's complete rubbish.The EU are acting the way they are out of anger and fear.
Their actions are nothing to do with trade or us being a competitor and everything thing to do with the existential threat that Brexit highlights.
If the EU were looking after their financial and trading interests they would be looking to treat us as a trading partner with whom they can do a lot of high value and high quality business and trade.
Your view on the matter does not add up in the slightest.
The EU is actually acting with us in matters of mutual interest as regards trade.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...iff-quota-plan
It is other members of the WTO who are objecting, including the USA, Canada and New Zealand, three Countries that Liam Fox has said it will be easy to do Trade Deals with.
The EU are looking after themselves when it comes to a Trade Deal with the UK.
They are quite happy for a WTO deal with the UK, it suits them.
It does not suit the UK, as most of our exports to the EU are Services, which are outside WTO Rules.
The maths are very simple, they have more to gain than to lose from No Deal.
I would remind you.
Who is asking for a Transition Period and is willing to pay for it?
It is the UK, not the EU.
We need it, the EU doesn't.
12-10-2017, 10:26 AM
40
Re: Brexit Talks New Agenda.
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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It does not suit the UK, as most of our exports to the EU are Services, which are outside WTO Rules.The maths are very simple, they have more to gain than to lose from No Deal.
Surely, if they don't need or want the services we offer, why don't they just obtain them from elsewhere?
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