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swimfeeders
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13-11-2017, 02:18 AM
201

Re: Brexit, The Lies.

Hi

Another couple of days of ridiculous claims from both sides.

We really are a divided nation, with a divided Government.

This is not a good place to be in when we are negotiating.

Our Cabinet Ministers are even divided on what sort of Trade Deal we want, arguing amongst themselves, another leaked Memo over the weekend showing the divisions.

We now have a fixed date and time for leaving, but have admitted we are not ready to leave on that date, we are asking for a Transition Deal of 2 years to put ourselves in a position to leave.

You could not make it up, a Government destroying itself for Political Ambition, instead of doing what we pay it to do, which is to look after our best interests.

We are portraying ourselves as week, divided, with no clear plan.

Rich pickings for others.

It should not have been such.
Julie1962
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13-11-2017, 12:01 PM
202

Re: Brexit, The Lies.

Well I blame Cameron, he should have had an inkling that plans for both answers were needed. If he was so arrogant he thought he didn't he should have stayed and put it right.
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JBR
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13-11-2017, 01:35 PM
203

Re: Brexit, The Lies.

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Our Cabinet Ministers are even divided on what sort of Trade Deal we want, arguing amongst themselves, another leaked Memo over the weekend showing the divisions.

We now have a fixed date and time for leaving, but have admitted we are not ready to leave on that date, we are asking for a Transition Deal of 2 years to put ourselves in a position to leave.

You could not make it up, a Government destroying itself for Political Ambition, instead of doing what we pay it to do, which is to look after our best interests.

We are portraying ourselves as week, divided, with no clear plan.
The real problem is that we are a divided nation and always have been, at least over my lifetime.

I think that the last time this country all pulled together was in the Second World War, and that was because there was a severe and tangible threat to us.

Even then, there was a minority who couldn't see it.

We now have a similar, yet less severe, threat. We now have a larger minority who would rather we ignore the threat or who do not even see it as a threat.

Consequently we remain divided, not only our people but also our politicians; especially our politicians. They, of course, have always been divided simply by their very nature: 'government' and 'opposition'.

Perhaps a better title for the 'opposition' (though, sadly, not as appropriate) would be 'moderation'.
Julie1962
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13-11-2017, 02:00 PM
204

Re: Brexit, The Lies.

We have an adversarial democracy so I'm not sure why anyone would expect us to pull together. Brexit should have been done by our best from all parties but it's become this mess.

We reap what we sow.
Realist
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13-11-2017, 05:33 PM
205

Re: Brexit, The Lies.

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Another couple of days of ridiculous claims from both sides.

We really are a divided nation, with a divided Government.

This is not a good place to be in when we are negotiating.
BrExit isn't going to happen. Every politician, Looney or Tory knows it. So all they are interested in is the best way to exploit the whole situation for political gain. Each party wants to be seen as the hero party in the whole mess.
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JBR
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13-11-2017, 05:56 PM
206

Re: Brexit, The Lies.

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
We have an adversarial democracy so I'm not sure why anyone would expect us to pull together.
Other democracies do: Germany, for example.

That's no doubt why they are richer than us.

What could have been, eh?
Purwell
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13-11-2017, 05:57 PM
207

Re: Brexit, The Lies.

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Other democracies do: Germany, for example.

That's no doubt why they are richer than us.

What could have been, eh?
Are they richer than us?
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JBR
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13-11-2017, 06:03 PM
208

Re: Brexit, The Lies.

Originally Posted by Realist ->
BrExit isn't going to happen. Every politician, Looney or Tory knows it. So all they are interested in is the best way to exploit the whole situation for political gain. Each party wants to be seen as the hero party in the whole mess.
I've said it before. If Brexit doesn't happen everyone will know that we no longer live in a democracy.

Democracy = A system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

We have benefited from living in a democracy for several centuries. I can't believe that my lifetime could include the day when that situation ends.

The government and the powers-that-be could try to dress it up any way they want, but the reality is that a democratic decision would have been over-ridden by some people in power for their own personal benefit.
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13-11-2017, 07:22 PM
209

Re: Brexit, The Lies.

Originally Posted by JBR ->
I've said it before. If Brexit doesn't happen everyone will know that we no longer live in a democracy. . . . We have benefited from living in a democracy for several centuries. I can't believe that my lifetime could include the day when that situation ends.
You are mistaken.

There has not been democracy here for many many years. The system of 2 party politics is a complete sham and has been here for a very long time. No matter which party you voted for, you voted for the corrupt system, for the stooge Common Purpose puppets, you voted to give up this country to a foreign power.

There was no democracy when Ted Heath initiated the process of handing the UK over to the EU WITHOUT giving the people a referendum on such a life changing event.

There was no democracy when Heath later gave people a retrospective referendum asking if they wanted to stay in the EU, (having already illegally put the UK in the EU) and did so under the subterfuge of it just being a trade deal.

There was no democracy when BLiar took us into wars in the Middle East without the people having any say.

This country has long since been taken over by criminals. Corrupt power mongering secret society members making their own laws, planting their own members in the police, the judiciary, in parliament, in the NHS, in the Royal Mail and every facet of British society.

WHat you think of as democracy is an illusion and has always been so in your life time.

You are simply now starting to find out, starting to slowly wake up. Of course it is all very much too late now. They run the show.
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13-11-2017, 08:17 PM
210

Re: Brexit, The Lies.

Originally Posted by Realist ->
You are mistaken.

There has not been democracy here for many many years.
I've heard you say that, or similar things, many times.

I don't subscribe to those theories.

Whilst I have, many times, bemoaned the fact that we have two main political factions who never agree and cannot for the life of them work together, there is the notable advantage of that situation that if one side tries something, the other will criticise them and oppose them.

If your theory were correct, they would be pulling together in order to please their invisible masters!
 
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