01-04-2017, 08:53 PM
21
Re: Politics Brexit: MPs angered by EU 'veto' over Gibraltar
I have said all along that if the EU want to play 'hard ball' we should show them just how to play.On the other hand, I am convinced that it is all bluster. Most of them, certainly the Frogs, never had the balls that the British had.
Yes, call their bluff.
01-04-2017, 09:15 PM
22
Re: Politics Brexit: MPs angered by EU 'veto' over Gibraltar
Originally Posted by JBR
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I have said all along that if the EU want to play 'hard ball' we should show them just how to play.On the other hand, I am convinced that it is all bluster. Most of them, certainly the Frogs, never had the balls that the British had.
Yes, call their bluff.
Unfortunately I don't think this is a bluff, they are determined to hurt us to prevent others from leaving.
They are much bigger than the UK Economically and control many of or Industries.
They have just hit us with big increases in the cost of our electricity, forced our Banks and Insurers to set up in the EU and pay tax there not here.
The phoney war is over, it is now the real thing.
The French Government effectively control mush of our electricity, water and waste collection and disposal industries.
They own Nissan, one of our biggest exporters and have just bought Vauxhall.
Bluff and bluster is over, it is now game on, the gloves are off.
The EU is already controlling the Agenda and the timescale, time to stand up and be counted, they are not playing around.
03-04-2017, 02:20 PM
23
Re: Politics Brexit: MPs angered by EU 'veto' over Gibraltar
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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HiI really cannot understand your bitterness against the UK and your gloating.
You profess to be British and state that you have family here.Why on Earth would you wish them harm?
Brexit is simply a divorce, we simply cannot live together any more.
There are two types of Divorce, the rational one, agree we have differences and just be sensible about the whole thing and go our own separate ways, minimal cost to each other and get on with the rest of our lives.
No bitterness, no antagonism, just a sensible decision.Minimal financial cost to both parties and still remain, if not totally amicable, but not certainly not enemies.
The second one is blame and revenge driven, which costs both parties money and anguish and both suffer in the long run.
The other type of Divorce is nasty, blame and revenge driven.
The sensible Divorce means that you pay up what is required by law and then part, it costs, but that is life.
The ideal Brexit, we pay our bills, however horrendous they are, and get on with our new life.
The second type is nasty, costs a mint and drags on for years.
It is absolutely no good to either Party.
We are heading for the second type, not our choice, it is a decision by the EU to punish us.
It works both ways, I am all for a simple, logical divorce, but I will not be bullied.
I react when I am, which is exactly what the EU are doing to the UK.
It is not our choice, it is the EU who have chosen this path.
They can go hang.
The Spanish and Gibraltar?
Watch this space.
Santander is one one biggest Banks in the UK, it is Spanish, we refuse to License them, naff all they can do about it.
British Airways is owned by the Spanish, we simply revoke their Licence to Operate here under open skies and put their Heathrow Landing Rights up for Auction.
The EU is threatening us with no deal unless we submit to all their demands.
OK, we accept no deal.
That means we are not dealing with the EU, but with Individual Countries.
We impose a 100% tax on Seat Cars, a 100% tax on Spanish Wine and fruit and vegetables and a 100% tax on Spanish Holidays.
Game over, it will destroy the Spanish Economy.
Fine, not what I want, but two can play rough.
It won't hurt us much at at all.
First I am bitter because enough misinformed uncritical gullible buffoons have done serious longterm damage to the country I used to love and play this ridiculously infantile game of gloating...like children who have stolen a shopful of chocolate while someone wasn't looking...and then blame everyone else for the difficulties they encounter. I have been saying for a year that this will end in tears for the Brits...and it hasn't even really started yet.
Remember Marmeduke's hatred of immigrants? Well it looks as if he is going to have to move among them for many years to come. David Davis is spending a lot of time backpedalling on what he thinks he said instead of what he says he said regardless of what YOU thought he said. Next he will be saying the red bus didn't actually exist!
Secondly I am wondering if you really know the rules of the WTO. As a member you charge the same tariffs on goods in one country as you do in all. Everyone does. That way you don't play politics with trade.
I suggest you read the rules of the team you say you want to play in. oN the way note the many other rules and organisational hierarchies involved.
You cannot deal with separate EU countries because no EU country can del separately with a non EU county. For the same reason....level playing field and no politics thru trade. Remember?? That is why some say they can now trade freely...as if 77+ countries isn't enough.
Any restrictions you put on European owned businesses forces them to open an EU base...and cut out UK employees. Banks are already starting to open small branches in Europe so they can shift their base when the time comes.
And lastly it is a tad churlish to blame the EU for standing up for itself when YOU have caused this.
I said ages ago the EU would be controlling the negotiations and was shouted down. Well there you go...
03-04-2017, 05:45 PM
24
Re: Politics Brexit: MPs angered by EU 'veto' over Gibraltar
Originally Posted by Flicker
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First I am bitter because enough misinformed uncritical gullible buffoons have done serious longterm damage to the country I used to love .......
Otherwise ....
03-04-2017, 05:52 PM
25
Re: Politics Brexit: MPs angered by EU 'veto' over Gibraltar
Originally Posted by Morticia
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Seems a tad odd to get so het up then No .. I don't really and thought I'd just say that as he's not about anymore to speak for himself.
Otherwise ....
I always read all of a post once I've started.
03-04-2017, 08:41 PM
27
Re: Politics Brexit: MPs angered by EU 'veto' over Gibraltar
HiFlicker.
I have a deep and meaningful relationship with my space bar, it will not change.
I am well aware of WTO Rules, which is why I referred to imposing Sanctions, which are not covered by WTO Rules, sanctions are legal.
WTO Rules do not cover Services, Holidays are services, not goods, so again perfectly legal.
Gibraltar is a issue between Spain and the UK, the EU had absolutely no right to include it in the negotiations, that was just bullying of the first order.
The response was necessary and appropriate and it worked.
As for Services, the EU have already made it clear that they will not Licence any services from the UK after Brexit.
The majority of our exports to the EU are Services, not goods.
It is because of the stance of the EU that our services industries are setting up offices in the EU to allow them to continue trading.
A very clever and ruthless move by the EU.
They will we getting an awful lot of Tax which would have previously been paid in the UK, it will hurt us.
It is inevitable that we will do the same, but will get much less Tax back.
04-04-2017, 12:03 PM
28
Re: Politics Brexit: MPs angered by EU 'veto' over Gibraltar
SFFirst the EU got involved with the Gib issue because it has to do with territory inside the EU. I think I read something in one of the treaties which establishes this as a principle.
If yu google the Cordoba Agreement (2007 I believe) you will see that the three payers in the Gib issue are all equally represented. ie they all have a voice in what happens to Gib. Therefore Spain IMO was right to insist on anything that happens between the UK and the EU that affects Gib is also run past Spain. Gib is important for Spain's strategic defence and I suggest the UK would do exactly the same with places like the Channel Islands if they were nominally French.
That services are not to be included in any settlement is IMO not cruel or ruthless. This was one of the first results forecast and I hope that soon the British people understand that the UK has really left the family and that this means the EU has no duty of care or protection...that it looks after its own interests. The days of special pampering and making exceptions are over.
The EU has negotiators who have been dealing with difficult trade deals for years. The UK is relatively naïve. They seem to be running to stand still, but full of overblown optimism and nationalistic chimeric jingoism. Two years is a long time and there is much to lose.
The awful sadness of all this is th at the older population which will die off sooner rather than later and who have profited so much from 70 years of stability and wealth have thrown it all away for themselves and the next generation whose opportunities have been so limited. Instead of being part of a growing EU they are now outside it and will find it difficult to get into it. How terribly selfish...and all to be able to turn the clock back and not to have to work with others for progress.
04-04-2017, 12:37 PM
30
Re: Politics Brexit: MPs angered by EU 'veto' over Gibraltar
Originally Posted by Flicker
->
SFFirst the EU got involved with the Gib issue because it has to do with territory inside the EU. I think I read something in one of the treaties which establishes this as a principle.
If yu google the Cordoba Agreement (2007 I believe) you will see that the three payers in the Gib issue are all equally represented. ie they all have a voice in what happens to Gib. Therefore Spain IMO was right to insist on anything that happens between the UK and the EU that affects Gib is also run past Spain. Gib is important for Spain's strategic defence and I suggest the UK would do exactly the same with places like the Channel Islands if they were nominally French.
That services are not to be included in any settlement is IMO not cruel or ruthless. This was one of the first results forecast and I hope that soon the British people understand that the UK has really left the family and that this means the EU has no duty of care or protection...that it looks after its own interests. The days of special pampering and making exceptions are over.
The EU has negotiators who have been dealing with difficult trade deals for years. The UK is relatively naïve. They seem to be running to stand still, but full of overblown optimism and nationalistic chimeric jingoism. Two years is a long time and there is much to lose.
The awful sadness of all this is th at the older population which will die off sooner rather than later and who have profited so much from 70 years of stability and wealth have thrown it all away for themselves and the next generation whose opportunities have been so limited. Instead of being part of a growing EU they are now outside it and will find it difficult to get into it. How terribly selfish...and all to be able to turn the clock back and not to have to work with others for progress.
As for throwing it away for our young, I'm hoping less cheap labour coming in may mean mine can find jobs. Ok they already work but I'd like to see our young have same chance I did all those years ago and be able to get a job and a home and live a decent life here.
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