The EU and Russia.

Hi

There have been a number of posts by a member warning the UK that the EU is defending the UK against Russia.

Although peripherally related to Brexit, these matters have been going on for some years before the Referendum and as such I have decided that, to my mind at least, this subject is worthy of discussion as a separate issue.

Mods, feel free to move this thread as you see fit.

I have a different view of the matter to some others.

After the break up of the former USSR, there was a great opportunity to mend fences and remove the threat of Nuclear War in Europe.

This worked for a while, massive disarmament, a substantial reduction in the huge arsenals of Nukes etc held by both sides.

Some in the EU desperately wanted a much enlarged EU and so moved rapidly eastwards towards the Russian Border.

Russia had lost 26 million people in WW2, it is stuck in their memory, it was not going to happen again.

The Eastern European Countries, the former USSR, where a useful buffer zone, it gave them a sense of security.

The EU went all out for a land grab, bribing these Countries with massive investments in new transport links, both road and rail.

The USSR had previously deliberately kept away from doing this.

It now meant the military were hours, not days, away from the Russian Border.

Russia started to get worried, and understandably so.

The straw that broke the camel's back was the Ukraine.

Merkel and Juncker were determined to get it into the EU.

They were also determined to have an EU Army.

The Russians have a deep rooted fear of Germany, after Leningrad and Stalingrad and the mass slaughter of Russian Nationals, who can blame them?

It was time for a realisation of the situation and for the EU to back off.

Did they do it?

No, instead went hell for leather.

A large part of the Ukraine is ethnic Russian and the Crimea is a vital strategic base for them.

Stop prodding them and in particular stop this mindset, held in particular by one, of how much of a danger Russia is to the UK.

I am not the only one who thinks like this.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order...top-expanding/

For NATO, read the EU.

If Merkel and Juncker want to get in a fight, good luck to them.

We should keep well out of it.

Re: The EU and Russia.

Well said. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

What I'd like to see is the EU being expelled from NATO.

There are two reasons why this should be done.

Firstly, most of the EU countries, and especially Germany and France, are not paying their share - a minimum of 2% of their GDP. They prefer to save their money and rely on the US to protect them at its expense. The US, understandably, doesn't like this.

Secondly, before the EEC became the EU, there was a tacit agreement between NATO and Russia that neither would expand its borders. The EU have, as you say, provoked Russia by attempting to expand their borders eastward.

If the EU as a whole was expelled from NATO, I have a strong suspicion that they would suddenly become a good deal less aggressive. No longer having the support of the mighty US (and us, for what it's worth), they would realise their military weakness and come scuttling back to their homelands.

Another benefit of this could be the breaking up of the EU with countries like Poland and Greece (who do pay their dues with regard to defence) applying to re-join NATO individually.

Re: The EU and Russia.

Excellent posts Swim and JB....
For some time now I have felt that our governments treatment of Putin, and Russia has been very unreasonable and spurred on by the USA. Most Russians have an infinity with the UK after we sent convoys of ships carrying supplies and munitions through the blockade of enemy U boats.

Everything I see and read in the media seems hell bent on convincing the general public that the Russians are our enemy and should not be trusted. I feel like I'm being manipulated, and that clown Boris certainly does not speak for me.

Re: The EU and Russia.

Nor me. He's becoming a liability.

You make a good point about Russia. Perhaps they do have long memories, and I have never seen them as our natural enemies.

I can imagine they distrust Germany for obvious reasons, though.

Who knows what will happen after we have left the EU?

Is it just possible that we might just be called upon to be an intermediary between Russia and the US?

What an arrangement!

Re: The EU and Russia.

Don't you think information gathered by our intelligence agencies may have something to do with our political approach to Russia?

Re: The EU and Russia.

Hi

Don't you think that our Politicians mislead us for their own ends?

Iraq anyone?

Re: The EU and Russia.

Don't you think that our relationship with Russia is improving?

It better had, anyway, because we are reliant on them for much of our resources, such as gas for example.

As I've said elsewhere, Russia is not our natural enemy and, as has been said elsewhere, they were our much needed allies in the Second World War.

It would serve us well to develop a greater friendship with them.

And to get rid of Boris the Buffoon!

Re: The EU and Russia.

With the exception of Corby-chov, both parties have been united in not trusting the administration in place for almost the last two decades. I'd say that's intelligence-based. Our intelligence services are pretty sound IMO. Knock them if you wish.

What political need has Boris to fall out with Russia?

Re: The EU and Russia.

The rest of Europe is more reliant on Russian gas. Russia is also reliant on their custom so they have a mutually beneficial arrangement. Nearly half our gas comes from our own production.

What we should be doing is building more nuclear reactors so we are less dependent on other countries for power. It's not like we can make matters worse environmentally given that France is covered in them.

Allies in WWII that started as enemies, led by a recognised mass murderer who threw his men into the battle as cannon-fodder. Allies that turned towards us with open arms only because they were double crossed. I blame the US just as much for what happened in the end. Eastern Europe was stitched up for expediency.

Can't agree with you more about BJ. But there would have been no brexit without his support. Such is his influence.

Re: The EU and Russia.

Hi

If you had bothered to read my posts on a number of threads you would know that not only do I have the highest regard for our Intelligence Services, I also constant praise them.

Who benefits greatly from sanctions against Russia?

OPEC.

What has Boris to do with it?

Well Boris will tell bare faced lies to advance his own career.

Perhaps you should do a little bit of research?