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Racker
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Zaandam, the Netherlands
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23-10-2017, 09:11 PM
11

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by Realist ->
To have their way, the UK MUST come out of the EU, period.
Only the English were pro-Brexit in majority, if my memory serves me well... Giving the English their desired independence would honor the outcome of that referendum. Essentially, that's what the English voter asked for.
Originally Posted by Realist ->
T
Anything else is an un-democratic fudge.

(.....)

Just not gonna happen.

There is no democracy in reality.
IMHO , "my out-of-the-box solution" could be the ultimate democratic solution. An UK, consisting of all Albian countries is just another concept. A concept that could be altered if a majority of voters request so. Why is a UK w/o England so unthinkable? As I stated: it would enable the British to have their own arrangements. No Brussels interference, just an internal affair...
Moscow
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23-10-2017, 09:32 PM
12

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by Racker ->
As a Dutch Anglophile I love to spend my holidays on your great Island. Over the years, we must have traveled most every part of Britain, from Lizard Point to well above Ullapool. As much as I'd regret, Britain leaving the EU, I also do understand the sentiment, so consider me a neutral outsider in this discussion.

But... Thinking about how difficult negotiations in Brussels are, I thought of a solution that'd give the British an opportunity to keep it all in their own hands.

It may sound as a joke to some, but think before you react...

Here's my Dutch solution:
  1. Stop all negotiations and withdraw the Brexit application
  2. then start negotiating internally, about the possibillities of England (possibly w/o Greater London) to.... LEAVE THE UK!

Weird as this may seem at first glance, thinking further, this would allow the Brits to keep it all in their own hands! England would leave the UK and subsequently the EU. And negotiations about borders, free trade and all other matters that have to be negotiated in Brussels now, could happen internally, amongst Brits.

OK... there'd be a lot of sentiment to overcome, but hey... There's a lot of sentiment in the way Brexit goes right-now too...
How about we just split Holland between Belgium and Germany......
Works for me!
Realist
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23-10-2017, 09:52 PM
13

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by Racker ->
Only the English were pro-Brexit in majority, if my memory serves me well...
That's somewhat disingenuous really.

The fact is, the Scottish contingent simply used the referendum vote as another lever to try and get independence. So they weren't really voting for BrExit or Remain. They just saw that if they Remained they might be able to get the help of the EU to be independent again.

Remove that whole independence issue and you'd get a very different picture.
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23-10-2017, 10:04 PM
14

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Actually Racker, your idea is not as daft as some people think....If Scotland would have voted 'Yes' to independence it is a well known fact that they would have effectively also exited the EU, and would have had to re-apply for membership. As a stand alone country there would have been no exit fee either, so if England became independent of the UK we would not be responsible for the excessive debt the EU are asking for now. Scotland would aso be happy to be cut adrift from England.....It's a 'Win Win' situation as far as I can see......
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23-10-2017, 10:17 PM
15

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

I see what you are getting at, Racker!

England leaves the EU whilst Scotland, N Ireland & Wales are free to leave or stay depending on their wishes.

Nothing to pay, no borders to prevent us taking the best of both worlds.

Could be an attractive proposition but needs a lot of work.

Freespirit
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23-10-2017, 11:36 PM
16

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by Racker

"Only the English were pro-Brexit in majority, if my memory serves me well... Giving the English their desired independence would honor the outcome of that referendum. Essentially, that's what the English voter asked for".

Your memory does not serve you well, the Welsh voted to Leave, so that would leave Scotland and NI on their own, not much of an United Kingdom. Still the EU may be satisfied with that, divide and rule comes to mind.
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24-10-2017, 06:19 AM
17

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by Moscow ->
How about we just split Holland between Belgium and Germany......
Works for me!
LOL

Serously: Firstly you're making the same mistake some of my countrymen do, saying "England" when they're talking about Britain as a whole... Holland is the western province of the Netherlands. Dutchmen from other parts of our low lands by the sea (Friezians for instance... they even have their own language!) would not be very happy if you'd call them "Hollanders", just as a Scotsman may be a "wee bit"annoyed when referred to as "Englishman"...

Secondly: There's no splitting of countries in my proposal. England, as a country would just leave the UK. Greater London could/would still be English, but with a special tie to the UK and therefore the EU, thus remaining one of the main financial centers of the western world. It'd be a win/win, as I see it!
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24-10-2017, 06:27 AM
18

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by OldGreyFox ->
Actually Racker, your idea is not as daft as some people think....If Scotland would have voted 'Yes' to independence it is a well known fact that they would have effectively also exited the EU, and would have had to re-apply for membership. As a stand alone country there would have been no exit fee either, so if England became independent of the UK we would not be responsible for the excessive debt the EU are asking for now. Scotland would aso be happy to be cut adrift from England.....It's a 'Win Win' situation as far as I can see......
That's exactly my point! The British would then have it in their own hands, how "tight" the bonds between the different British entities would be. No meddling of the EU with a then "internal affair" of Britain!
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24-10-2017, 06:37 AM
19

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by Tedc ->
I see what you are getting at, Racker!

England leaves the EU whilst Scotland, N Ireland & Wales are free to leave or stay depending on their wishes.

Nothing to pay, no borders to prevent us taking the best of both worlds.

Could be an attractive proposition but needs a lot of work.

Spot-on (as they say on your side of the salty waters). Just like OldGreyFox you get the idea... Keep it all in British hands and avoid the meddling of EU politicians...
Racker's Avatar
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24-10-2017, 06:51 AM
20

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by Freespirit ->
Originally Posted by Racker

"Only the English were pro-Brexit in majority, if my memory serves me well... (....)

Your memory does not serve you well, the Welsh voted to Leave, so that would leave Scotland and NI on their own, not much of an United Kingdom. Still the EU may be satisfied with that, divide and rule comes to mind.
Sorry for my omission, but that does not essentially change my position: The results would be quite the opposite!! Instead of "devide and rule", the EU, would sadly have to look on, while they see their Brexit claims go vain. The UK would still be IN the EU (albeit "a bit" smaller), so NO Brexit payments. It would be an internal British affair, as I see it: leaving the EU empty-handed...
 
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