19-06-2017, 11:14 AM
11
Re: Not hard or soft but "open" Brexit
I like the analogy that people voted to move house.The decision of Where to, hasn't been decided yet.
Similarly the boat is sinking, let's all jump in the water....... Nobody has considered floating aids or the sharks circling.
Voting for such a history changing event without any directions options or aims is folly.
19-06-2017, 01:39 PM
12
Re: Not hard or soft but "open" Brexit
Originally Posted by Purwell
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People still maintain that they knew what they were voting for!
19-06-2017, 01:48 PM
14
Re: Not hard or soft but "open" Brexit
Originally Posted by shropshiregirl
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Pleased to hear Phillip Hammond state today that we are definitely leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union. (two down, three to go).
Is he The Man Of The Moment??
19-06-2017, 02:52 PM
15
Re: Not hard or soft but "open" Brexit
HiDemocracy comes with a price.
First the Brexit Bill, we have to pay, if we do not we will have defaulted on an InternationaL Agreement.
Our Interest Payments, currently over £40 Billion a year, will increase.
We will find it exceedingly difficult to borrow any more money and we are currently borrowing £52 billion a year just to pay for Government Spending.
How much the Brexit Bill is, is down to the skill of our negotiators.
If we do nor pay the Brexit Bill we can say goodbye to any new trade deals with the rest of the world, they simply will not trust us.
We are leaving the Single Market, that means no deals on Sevices, which are the vast amount of our Exports to the EU.
The WTO Rules only cover goods, services are specifically excluded.
We will lose in excess of £20 Billion a year in tax from the Financial Services we currently supply to the EU.
Our current net contribution to the EU is a bit less than £9 Billion.
Adding it up, we are losing around £9 Billion a year net.
That does not include any increase in interest rates on Government Debt.
When we leave the EU, we leave all the EU Trade Deals they have done and we are part of.
There are around 80 of these.
These disappear automatically and immediately.
The first thing we must do is ask, nicely, if we can continue to be part of these deals, not ask the EU, but ask each Country outside the EU these deals were done with.
The EU is a much bigger Market than the UK is, we may not get them all, or on the same terms.
After we have done that, we negotiate new trade deals.
It is a fact of life that these take years.
To control Immigration, we need to train people in areas where have skills shortages.
An example is Nurses.
We have just stop Bursaries for Nurses, we going to be training less not more.
My Local NHS Trust is paying £1.4 Million a month for agency nurses to cover shortages.
That is enough to give 560 youngsters £30,000 each to train as nurses every year.
This just one small NHS Trust.
This is absolute madness.
The cost of leaving in the way the Government wants, the way many voted for, the Red Lines, is quite simple.
A freeze on all Benefits, including Pensions, for a minimum of 5 years and an increase in Income Tax and NI Contributions of 2%.
I knew that when I voted to leave, I took a conscious decision that it was worth it.
I did not, for one minute, believe that the UK would save money, I did not fall for the blatant lie that was the £350 Million a week Battlebus.
My two kids, far more intelligent than me, voted to remain, they were quite happy with the EU.
They are both now abroad.
My son in Taiwan.
My daughter is very bright, a tax accountant.
She is earning a fortune moving a very big International Bank out of the UK into the EU.
The loss of income to the UK from moving this one bank abroad will be massive.
Unfortunately I am not in touch with her.
My son is.
She is earning a fortune from Brexit.
She still likes the UK as a place to have a base.
She has had an advance on her pay, enough to buy a house with land for her horses in the Cotswolds.
She no longer pays any Income Tax here in the UK.
03-07-2017, 01:44 PM
16
Re: Not hard or soft but "open" Brexit
Pity some British contractors didn't look outward into the EU and tender for contracts to rebuild the poorer eastern European countries. Instead they merely laughed at them and made them feel unwanted. The Brits were so superior, so "better" than others.Now the way to make money is to help the UK leave. So much could have been made to help it to stay. But arrogance blinded the UK and the chance has passed by.
03-07-2017, 01:56 PM
17
Re: Not hard or soft but "open" Brexit
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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First the Brexit Bill, we have to pay, if we do not we will have defaulted on an InternationaL Agreement.
If so, it seems that they can demand as much money from us as they want. Will the rest of the world, with whom we intend to trade after we have left the EU, see their demands as reasonable?
Or, perhaps, have they too seen through the money-grabbing strategies of the EU and care not what they demand?
On a different tack, can we demand payment from the EU for the retention of all the buildings and other infrastructure for which we have made contributory payments over the years?
Surely, this must work both ways.
03-07-2017, 02:14 PM
18
Re: Not hard or soft but "open" Brexit
Originally Posted by Flicker
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Pity some British contractors didn't look outward into the EU and tender for contracts to rebuild the poorer eastern European countries. Instead they merely laughed at them and made them feel unwanted. The Brits were so superior, so "better" than others.Now the way to make money is to help the UK leave. So much could have been made to help it to stay. But arrogance blinded the UK and the chance has passed by.
East Germany, Poland and the Czech Republic were awash with British, West German and American outfits moving things forward.
03-07-2017, 02:36 PM
19
Re: Not hard or soft but "open" Brexit
Originally Posted by JBR
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This 'Brexit Bill' that it appears we are obliged to pay, is this determined by the EU?If so, it seems that they can demand as much money from us as they want. Will the rest of the world, with whom we intend to trade after we have left the EU, see their demands as reasonable?
Or, perhaps, have they too seen through the money-grabbing strategies of the EU and care not what they demand?
On a different tack, can we demand payment from the EU for the retention of all the buildings and other infrastructure for which we have made contributory payments over the years?
Surely, this must work both ways.
Hi
Yes it does work both ways, and yes, we can tell them to get stuffed about some things that are demanding and so we should.
The bulk of the money is however things that we have voluntarily signed up for in the past and which are subject to International Law, not EU Law.
If we break International Law, no one will deal with us, simply because we are not trustworthy.
Some of the things that we are doing are absolutely stupid, the result of Theresa May's Red Lines.
Euratom is a great example of this.
We are leaving because the ECJ has the say in any disputes and it would mean freedom of movement for EU Atomic Scientists coming to work here in the UK.
I am informed that at the last count there are around 340 of them working here, the cost of leaving works out at slightly over £2 million for each one.
That is just plain stupidity.
No one Country can afford to do what Euratom is doing, that is why the USA, Russia and China are associate members and accept the ECJ Arbitration in any dispute.
Theresa May sees it as a problem, Trump, Putin and Xi all disagree with her.
She is not the brightest of people, she could not even outwit Corbyn, yet she thinks she knows better than the most powerful people in the World.
03-07-2017, 03:35 PM
20
Re: Not hard or soft but "open" Brexit
Not nearly every person voted for Brexit, just over half of those who voted did.Those who did and are insisting that they knew what they were voting for are deluded.
Nobody knew what they were voting for including Cameron.
He needs to be dragged back, together with Gideon and made to sort it all out!
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