Re: The Nasty Party

Hi Plantman, some 25 years ago my daughter worked as an artist helping to produce greeting card for a well-known company. Four of them who worked in the same department decided to set up their own card company. To cut a long story short, after a lot of hard work and taking financial risks they became very successful and the firm grew and grew employing some 200 people all told. This year an American firm bought their company and they all became quite wealthy. Now, by their own initiative, hard work and risk taking, they have given work to many people and become wealthy. Should they be punished with extortionate taxes or praised for their efforts in producing wealth for themselves and for others. There's nothing wrong with people becoming rich providing they do some good on the way.

Re: The Nasty Party

[QUOTE=plantman;217578]Your posts always amuse me UJ, as your apparent hatred of all successful people, people by the way that pay more into the social security system through their higher tax rate, is almost palpable.

But surely without hard working, entrepreneurial, successful people both generating employment for the masses and paying their own taxes, there would be no welfare state at all. So would you really, after all of those years generating all of that employment, working all of those hours, worrying all of that worry and paying all of that tax into the system, then seek to deny them the most basic of paybacks in their retirement? Personally I find that pretty shameful..[/QUOTE

Are you an entrepreneur?, you speak with much authority.

Re: The Nasty Party

Entrepreneurs don't employ workers for the workers sake, it is because they want to be filthy rich.
Workers are slaves to the rich and nothing more, they are expendable, I have seen grown men cry after losing their jobs because orders have run low and do you think the owners care, not one bit.
And lets take this business of the rich paying more into the welfare state than the workers, rubbish, the workers pay more percentage wise than the rich do.

Re: The Nasty Party

So they pay NI all their lives do well and then are refused a State pension.

Others are scoungers who do not work do not pay NI and are given a State pension.

Re: The Nasty Party

Sue said : ---So they pay NI all their lives do well and then are refused a State pension.

Look at it this way Sue, the NI payments are there as an insurance, if needed.
I agree they should be used for the needy and not the greedy, for example anyone no matter what their income gets family allowance, why if they have more than enough in the bank?

Re: The Nasty Party

What an awful statement to make regarding employers. You have obviously never been one, as most employers care greatly for their workforce and feel a huge responsibility towards them and their families. From personal experience I can tell you that the hardest thing you ever have to do as an employer is to tell someone they have to go, whatever the reason.

I do agree that to be an entrepeneur is not entirely alturistic, but for the majority of them the pride in producing something worthwhile, the thrill of building a company and the pleasure in providing a good living for all of those around you is just as important as the personal rewards. The days of slavery are over and it is well accepted that your greatest asset is your workforce.

But just accept this, whether you love them or loathe them, without entrepeneurs no-one would have a job, no-one would earn wages and no-one would pay taxes, and without the taxes no-one would be on benefit, in fact we'd still be living in caves.

I personally find spite and envy, for that is all it can be, of the hard working wealth producers of the world to be a very unattractive trait.

Re: The Nasty Party

Hi Wrinkly, you appear to have a VERY jaundiced view of employers. I am sure there are some bad employers and equally there are some bad employees. The company which my daughter helped to found cared very much for it's employees. They paid good wages, helped them surmount personal problems and, in one case I remember, bought a house with company funds to house a family moving into the area when the father went to work for them. On the other hand they had employees who were always off sick and they did all they could to help them before finally giving it best and dismissing them.

Re: The Nasty Party

I know this has wandered off topic a bit if my memory serves me right, up to about forty years ago, the majority of folks went into business to replicate an income that could be accured working for someone else, the satisfaction of being ones own boss was the icing on the cake. To realize this modest ambition did not require massive borrowing or investment, but somewhere along the line, this ethos has changed, everyone now seems to expect self employment will make them a million, and to achieve this goal, many take risks, from behind a cloak of "Limited Liability" status, no wonder we are up the creek. Imo

Re: The Nasty Party

Exactly Paul, you are spot on, except there are more people trying to start their own little bossiness, because there are no jobs.
My business I started up 22 years ago, as a key worker for many years to a entrepreneur, he did the dirty on me, but I got my own back to my satisfaction, I took good business from him at the rate of £40,000 per month and growing, till this Tory shower got in.
All my business for the first ten years came from entrepreneurs, then we changed it to a retirement business, by that I mean retirement for us and nearly all our business comes from retired folks, because my time spent working in management I planned my future.
When I wanted help I turned to my family, firstly my wife, and next my son and daughter, all partners in the business, till we retired and then we gave the business to them.
I have been in management most my life, and that them and us culture was terrible, from both sides, and I certainly don't blame the unions.
What as happened to cause the situation we are in now, is big businesses in Thatcher day closed down and moved them to foreign parts where they employ slave labour to this day, and those that stayed bought from the likes of China because slave labour was producing for them.
We have had many examples over the years of big companies being caught out using slave labour from China and India.
I know many ex top management who have been brainwashed to believe the Tory proper gander, and now believe they are one of them.
Thank god some entrepreneurs, have stayed behind and have kept uk workers employed, unfortunately they have been forced to take on European labour as well, but that cuts both ways.
This country will not survive under a Tory government, or a Labour government with politicians who want to feather their nests, who can put it right I don't know but certainly not the shower that's in at the moment, I beg you all to vote when you have a chance, and use that vote very wisely even if it needs us to vote Labour just to get this shower out.
I feel for my grandkids and others of their era, God help them.
I was born working class and working class I will stay, also a union man to my dying day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdOCWUgwiWs

Re: The Nasty Party

I was not born 'working class' but I was born into a 'working class' family, and I couldn't wait to get out. Working class, I felt, was not necessarily about money or job, but a state of mind.

My parents were of the Scottish presbyterian type who somehow believed that we all had our place in life and things were pre-determined for us. Not me - I didn't agree with their values and beliefs. Every day, hundreds of workers would make their way on foot or bycle, carrying their lunch boxes under their arms. Several people tell me that I said "you won't catch me walking down harbour road with a piece box under my arm", and though I don't remember doing it, I certainly though it. So I went to university, studied engineering and worked most of my life in I.T. for a non-unionised company.

There is nothing wrong with success, but we are punished for being successful. The more you earn, the more you contribute and the less you get in return. There is something badly wrong with this country and I don't trust any of the current bunch of politicians to sort it out!