16-03-2017, 10:26 AM
101
Re: ECJ rules Headscarf bans legal
Which ever way we look at it , everyone has a different example to give.One that stands out in my mind, was when a group of Muslim ladies wished to have swimming lessons in the local leisure centre.
Nobody objected, viewed as a normal course of events. The specific time they wanted meant that classes for over 60's had to be cancelled , the windows on the upper level had to be blocked out and the lifeguards could not be male. So rotas had to be changed accordingly, to enable the two female lifeguards to be in attendance. Then the clothing was a problem and they wanted to swim in t/shirts and jogging pants. Never can anyone else do so but exceptions were made. Everything set up for the next six weeks. They went for the first week and never went back. So for 5 weeks, there was an empty pool, people with a changed schedule, blacked out windows, that had to be done every time and no contact or explanations from them.
Point being , they have been treated and accepted in many places, they simply don't seem to understand how people have bent over backwards to accommodate their religious dogma. Once we have a gun held to our heads, we may as well say 'give up' and unless we do make some sort of legal stance in all of these unsettling issues, we will in the not too distant future, have a gun to our heads. We can all live in harmony, when both sides give.
16-03-2017, 10:28 AM
102
Re: ECJ rules Headscarf bans legal
Originally Posted by muddy
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muslim women aren't being banned from doing anything, they're just choosing to wear something, and they can wear it if they like. they just can't necessarily wear it in workplaces with dress codes. why should their clothing preferences be catered to above and beyond those of anyone else. Otherwise we could have people people running about dressed as jedi warriors or buddhist monks, secularism means treating everyone equally. in the real world the is no reason to give priority to irrational superstitious beliefs with no basis in reality.
16-03-2017, 10:30 AM
103
Re: ECJ rules Headscarf bans legal
Personally I'd say that was bad management, if the pool cancelled other classes that was their mistake not the people asking for that time period. We had a prayer room made at work, they had no choice of room it was just set up for them, complaints came in the rest room had now become unusable as you couldn't access it. I didn't blame the Muslims it was the management made that gaff. But others blame the religion !16-03-2017, 10:55 AM
104
Re: ECJ rules Headscarf bans legal
Originally Posted by Julie1962
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Personally I'd say that was bad management, if the pool cancelled other classes that was their mistake not the people asking for that time period. We had a prayer room made at work, they had no choice of room it was just set up for them, complaints came in the rest room had now become unusable as you couldn't access it. I didn't blame the Muslims it was the management made that gaff. But others blame the religion !
Do you have a prayer room made for other religious denominations in your work or do they all share the same one ?
16-03-2017, 10:55 AM
105
Re: ECJ rules Headscarf bans legal
Originally Posted by Twink55
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The question I ask is " Would they be happy if a woman walked through their community, in their own country, dressed in a pair of shorts and a skimpy top?" If anybody says they would, I would like to see photographic evidence of a western lady, dressed as she would on holiday in a hot Spain, walking among Muslim ladies dressed in their "chosen" attire.We are never going to agree on this, but I have to say that I would be uncomfortable, walking round certain areas in Britain, where these people are wearing their " chosen" dress code.
I have seen videos where they make demands on what British people, living in their own country, do when walking down the road that passes their Mosque. When all of them show acceptance of how we British live, then they can start to expect tolerance from us. Until then I suggest that their Imans remind them that their chosen country expects them to follow the British Culture, as they expect us to do in their own countries.
In our country, muslim women can walk where they want dressed as a Dalek and no-one dare say anything.
Fair?
16-03-2017, 10:59 AM
106
Re: ECJ rules Headscarf bans legal
Originally Posted by Puddle Duck
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Which ever way we look at it , everyone has a different example to give. One that stands out in my mind, was when a group of Muslim ladies wished to have swimming lessons in the local leisure centre.
Nobody objected, viewed as a normal course of events. The specific time they wanted meant that classes for over 60's had to be cancelled , the windows on the upper level had to be blocked out and the lifeguards could not be male. So rotas had to be changed accordingly, to enable the two female lifeguards to be in attendance. Then the clothing was a problem and they wanted to swim in t/shirts and jogging pants. Never can anyone else do so but exceptions were made. Everything set up for the next six weeks. They went for the first week and never went back. So for 5 weeks, there was an empty pool, people with a changed schedule, blacked out windows, that had to be done every time and no contact or explanations from them.
Point being , they have been treated and accepted in many places, they simply don't seem to understand how people have bent over backwards to accommodate their religious dogma. Once we have a gun held to our heads, we may as well say 'give up' and unless we do make some sort of legal stance in all of these unsettling issues, we will in the not too distant future, have a gun to our heads. We can all live in harmony, when both sides give.
All our own fault, of course.
16-03-2017, 11:03 AM
107
Re: ECJ rules Headscarf bans legal
Originally Posted by Puddle Duck
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No Julie, as the pool was booked for all sorts of other things all day, like disability swimming, school classes , lessons that were paid for. It was the ONLY available slot to be adjusted! Had they been refused, well one can only surmise what might have been concluded. Do you have a prayer room made for other religious denominations in your work or do they all share the same one ?
I'd still say that was bad management if no one turned up first week I'd be ringing up to say it was there if they didn't use it again the faculty would be lost to them. Unless they paid of course in advance, then it's theirs to swim in or not and nothing to do with anyone else what they chose to do.
16-03-2017, 11:31 AM
108
Re: ECJ rules Headscarf bans legal
[QUOTE=Julie1962;1113341].I'd still say that was bad management if no one turned up first week I'd be ringing up to say it was there if they didn't use it again the faculty would be lost to them. Unless they paid of course in advance, then it's theirs to swim in or not and nothing to do with anyone else what they chose to do.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that precisely the issue here being discussed. They got their own way at the expense of pensioners swimming, they paid in advance so no one else could use it, and didn't bother turning up apart from the first week.
It was not all for their taking. It involved other people who did not have to change rosta, who did not have to black out windows , and they could have been denied access without proper swimming attire. So, it's not only what they choose to do and they ruined it for any others who were hoping to follow the same path.
16-03-2017, 11:39 AM
109
Re: ECJ rules Headscarf bans legal
Originally Posted by Puddle Duck
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Isn't that precisely the issue here being discussed. They got their own way at the expense of pensioners swimming, they paid in advance so no one else could use it, and didn't bother turning up apart from the first week.
16-03-2017, 11:57 AM
110
Re: ECJ rules Headscarf bans legal
[QUOTE=Puddle Duck;1113363]
Originally Posted by Julie1962
->
.I'd still say that was bad management if no one turned up first week I'd be ringing up to say it was there if they didn't use it again the faculty would be lost to them. Unless they paid of course in advance, then it's theirs to swim in or not and nothing to do with anyone else what they chose to do.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that precisely the issue here being discussed. They got their own way at the expense of pensioners swimming, they paid in advance so no one else could use it, and didn't bother turning up apart from the first week.
It was not all for their taking. It involved other people who did not have to change rosta, who did not have to black out windows , and they could have been denied access without proper swimming attire. So, it's not only what they choose to do and they ruined it for any others who were hoping to follow the same path.
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