03-12-2016, 05:43 PM
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Corbyn to try to amend Article 50
HiYou have to admire his persistence.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38196303
He really does not get it does he?
Labour lost their deposit at the Bye Election, I wonder why?
03-12-2016, 05:52 PM
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Re: Corbyn to try to amend Article 50
What Corbyn and his ilk even now fail to comprehend, is that although they may be desperate to feel important politically they are not part of a solution but are actually a part of the problem.They remain, it seems, completely unelectable and absolutely bonkers...
03-12-2016, 06:04 PM
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Re: Corbyn to try to amend Article 50
Originally Posted by Barry
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What Corbyn and his ilk even now fail to comprehend, is that although they may be desperate to feel important politically they are not part of a solution but are actually a part of the problem.They remain, it seems, completely unelectable and absolutely bonkers...
04-12-2016, 11:25 AM
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Re: Corbyn to try to amend Article 50
Originally Posted by Barry
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What Corbyn and his ilk even now fail to comprehend, is that although they may be desperate to feel important politically they are not part of a solution but are actually a part of the problem.They remain, it seems, completely unelectable and absolutely bonkers...
He sees that as a further division between the north and the south, between manufacturing and the services industry.
As that stands he is being the more traditional labour leader they used to be before Tony abolished Clause 4.
Maybe if the UK ever gets its manufacturing industries back it may be worth reintroducing it as art of the New Britain...
To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service.[3]
IOW a relaunch of he leftist form of socialism.
04-12-2016, 11:36 AM
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Re: Corbyn to try to amend Article 50
Originally Posted by Flicker
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Barry what he seems to be doing is trying to protect jobs which will be hard hit if the UK leaves the single market.He sees that as a further division between the north and the south, between manufacturing and the services industry.
As that stands he is being the more traditional labour leader they used to be before Tony abolished Clause 4.
To assume that all of these things are not being considered is ridiculous, and to be quite frank Corbyn and the other party leaders are doing nothing more than political rabble rousing and talking the country down when we need to show a united front to Brussels to stand any chance of a favorable outcome to negotiations.
04-12-2016, 11:43 AM
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Re: Corbyn to try to amend Article 50
Originally Posted by barry
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so corbyn is that clever he thinks his is the only party which realises the importance of the single market to jobs and trade? Does he really not think the government is not trying to formulate a position by which to retain as much access as possible, and does he not think it will be quite advantageous to the european negotiators to see all of the government's strategy laid bare before negotiations even start? To assume that all of these things are not being considered is ridiculous, and to be quite frank corbyn and the other party leaders are doing nothing more than political rabble rousing and talking the country down when we need to show a united front to brussels to stand any chance of a favorable outcome to negotiations.
04-12-2016, 11:52 AM
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Re: Corbyn to try to amend Article 50
You lay be right.However from what is "leaked" (which in this case is merely press guess) dies suggest there are those in the cabinet...ie Boris who want a hard Brexit...they don't care abut keeping access to the single market because they are against open borders. They know you can't have one without the other.
IOW they are willing to sacrifice the future wealth of the UK for what they vaguely call "independence" but what they forgot to tell you is that whatever happens the UK will be subject to laws imposed in the very trade deals they imagine will magically emerge.
ie India wants more Indians in the UK.to make a trade deal.
You cannot do deals that do not benefit the other. and the UK will possibly need those deals far more than the partner does, which puts the UK at a disadvantage.
From what I hear there is a real possibility that there will be no access tot eh single market because the rest of the EU will say so. It is silly for the UK to tie itself up on knots designing some plan when in the end it is the EU which has to agree in a vote. and the UK is not in any position to call any shots. Many in the EU have said out is out. There is no half way. I think the UK govt should take note.
Which Corbyn lay realise and is staking his interests now.
BTW there is no united front in the UK. Just a more shouty side and a more quiet side making plans while the shouty side cant hear them for shouting.
04-12-2016, 07:00 PM
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Re: Corbyn to try to amend Article 50
Originally Posted by Flicker
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You cannot do deals that do not benefit the other. and the UK will possibly need those deals far more than the partner does, which puts the UK at a disadvantage.
What is the situation now? The situation is that to achieve any deal, any new legislation, the UK has to go into the European Parliament with its begging bowl and start trying to muster up a "Qualifying Majority" amongst ALL the EU member states. It has to do this because the UK only has a tiny amount of votes amongst a massive collective. So what does that actually mean in practice?
It means that all the other countries, who couldn't give a flying f**k about the UK all get to smugly sit there and say "well UK, you want X to happen do you? And you need our support and vote to make that happen eh? So tell me, how will you scratch our back if we scratch yours?"
So wherein is the difference? The system is already stupid in the extreme with Britain's home issues being of no concern whatsoever to the other member states and yet the UK has to go bargaining to get their support. EU votes simply become a tradable commodity which has nothing at all to do with the issues on the table.
We are better off out of such a ridiculous system which will clearly NEVER serve the needs and wishes of the UK populous. Once out we can still negotiate with the other states, the crucial difference being we can do that 1 on 1 instead of having to try and achieve a "Qualifying Majority" in a corrupt collective.
Originally Posted by Flicker
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From what I hear there is a real possibility that there will be no access tot eh single market because the rest of the EU will say so.
The FACT is that the EU is collapsing. So it's NOT simply the UK that is going to be looking to secure deals with other European countries. Once Greece leaves, and then Spain, Italy, Denmark and the rest then we will all collectively be looking for ways to trade with each other. We will ALL therefore collectively establish whatever trade agreements we need between us.
What you are doing here is establishing a picture where the UK stands alone against the rest of the EU and trying to suggest that the EU won't play ball. You are in denial.
The EU is crumbling, it has failed spectacularly. It has ruined the economies of lots of member states and ruined the lives of countless people. A NEW way is about to be formed from the ashes and country by country the other member states WILL Exit and join it. They will all be keen to trade with the UK.
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