13-06-2017, 11:53 AM
122
Re: The Polish and Others are leaving.
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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HiNo, not directly told, but indirectly, an awful lot of pressure being put on.
Eu Residents have no right to remain at all after Brexit, they can apply for permanent residency after 5 years here.
This is not granted automatically, you have to fill in an 85 page application form, which is a nightmare, and currently 28% are being rejected.
How many of us have every bill for the last five years or can prove that their kids who where born here have stayed here since?
It really is not worth the bother, so not only are they leaving, new ones are not coming, hence the huge drop in Nurses arriving here.
The unskilled are still arriving, tempted by the Minimum Wage, it is the skilled who are leaving.
In the past many British girls enjoyed nursing, despite the unsocial hours. If we want that to continue, and I am wrong in thinking that young Brits are bone idle and want an easy life, then maybe they will learn the skills and replace all these foreign workers, who seem to think it is a good living!
If they really want to live here, surely they will make the effort to supply the info required, because it cannot be impossible to acquire that info, or immigration wouldn't ask for it!
13-06-2017, 12:06 PM
123
Re: The Polish and Others are leaving.
Originally Posted by Twink55
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Swim I know you have Polish friends, so look at things from their point of view, but years ago my father had to complete lots of forms before he could take work and residence in Australia and the USA. He didn't go because I refused to go with my family but, if I hadn't refused to go, he would have bothered to complete all the forms with the personal info they required......Isn't that how you can be sure that the people who want to live in your country are worthwhile residents and are unlikely to require the benefits we provide?In the past many British girls enjoyed nursing, despite the unsocial hours. If we want that to continue, and I am wrong in thinking that young Brits are bone idle and want an easy life, then maybe they will learn the skills and replace all these foreign workers, who seem to think it is a good living!
If they really want to live here, surely they will make the effort to supply the info required, because it cannot be impossible to acquire that info, or immigration wouldn't ask for it!
In addition, when (and if) the UK and the EU should manage to come to some sort of mutually beneficial agreement, I fully expect the same provisions would be made for EU ex-pats living here and UK ex-pats living in the EU.
I think that would be fair.
13-06-2017, 01:04 PM
124
Re: The Polish and Others are leaving.
Originally Posted by Twink55
->
Swim I know you have Polish friends, so look at things from their point of view, but years ago my father had to complete lots of forms before he could take work and residence in Australia and the USA. He didn't go because I refused to go with my family but, if I hadn't refused to go, he would have bothered to complete all the forms with the personal info they required......Isn't that how you can be sure that the people who want to live in your country are worthwhile residents and are unlikely to require the benefits we provide?In the past many British girls enjoyed nursing, despite the unsocial hours. If we want that to continue, and I am wrong in thinking that young Brits are bone idle and want an easy life, then maybe they will learn the skills and replace all these foreign workers, who seem to think it is a good living!
If they really want to live here, surely they will make the effort to supply the info required, because it cannot be impossible to acquire that info, or immigration wouldn't ask for it!
Irrespective of having Polish friends, which merely gives me an insight into the difficulties, the fact remains that we are putting severe obstacles in the way of EU Residents who wish to stay.
An 85 page form is a nonsense and some of the documents required are, contrary to what you say, simply not available.
The most common reason being that a previous employer is no longer in business.
It is a completely unnecessary process.
Being here and working is really simple to prove, the Government has already got the information.
They have an NI Number, the government has records of their employment and contributions paid and any benefits received.
We are simply making it as difficult as possible for them.
If you were working for BHS for example, there is no way you can get the proof the Government are asking for.
Many people do not keep their payslips for years for example.
The situation is even worse for those households who have a single earner, the wife for example, has no proof that she has been in the country all the time.
We would not be happy if the EU applied the same rules for UK Citizens living in the EU.
There have been some absolutely stupid decisions.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...e-after-brexit
It is a nonsense, they would have been treated better as illegal immigrants, we even give illegals Legal Aid to fight their cases.
It is not surprising that they are leaving and employers are also complaining about this stupidity, they are losing people in areas where we have skills shortages.
You cannot magic hydraulic engineers off the shelf at a moments notice.
13-06-2017, 01:32 PM
125
Re: The Polish and Others are leaving.
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
->
HiIrrespective of having Polish friends, which merely gives me an insight into the difficulties, the fact remains that we are putting severe obstacles in the way of EU Residents who wish to stay.
An 85 page form is a nonsense and some of the documents required are, contrary to what you say, simply not available.
The most common reason being that a previous employer is no longer in business.
It is a completely unnecessary process.
Being here and working is really simple to prove, the Government has already got the information.
They have an NI Number, the government has records of their employment and contributions paid and any benefits received.
We are simply making it as difficult as possible for them.
If you were working for BHS for example, there is no way you can get the proof the Government are asking for.
Many people do not keep their payslips for years for example.
The situation is even worse for those households who have a single earner, the wife for example, has no proof that she has been in the country all the time.
We would not be happy if the EU applied the same rules for UK Citizens living in the EU.
There have been some absolutely stupid decisions.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...e-after-brexit
It is a nonsense, they would have been treated better as illegal immigrants, we even give illegals Legal Aid to fight their cases.
It is not surprising that they are leaving and employers are also complaining about this stupidity, they are losing people in areas where we have skills shortages.
You cannot magic hydraulic engineers off the shelf at a moments notice.
We have traded common sense for box-ticking.
13-06-2017, 02:41 PM
126
Re: The Polish and Others are leaving.
Originally Posted by Twink55
->
In the past many British girls enjoyed nursing, despite the unsocial hours. If we want that to continue, and I am wrong in thinking that young Brits are bone idle and want an easy life, then maybe they will learn the skills and replace all these foreign workers, who seem to think it is a good living!
!
13-06-2017, 03:02 PM
127
Re: The Polish and Others are leaving.
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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In those days you didn't need a nursing degree to get a decent position. Nurses now have more responsibility and the technology of medicine is far more complex. We have also taken away bursaries.
You do not need a degree for nursing or many other jobs.
What you need is a professional qualification and adequate practical training.
The professional qualification needs to be adequate and appropriate for the job.
Universities are well capable of turning out theorists who are completely useless at the job, I have met many such.
I simply cannot understand why Bursaries were removed, it is a total nonsense.
We should be training our own youngsters in jobs where we have a skills shortage.
The other point I would make is this, lack of a degree should be used as a reason to hold down wages or promotion.
13-06-2017, 03:25 PM
128
Re: The Polish and Others are leaving.
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
->
HiYou do not need a degree for nursing or many other jobs.
What you need is a professional qualification and adequate practical training.
The professional qualification needs to be adequate and appropriate for the job.
Universities are well capable of turning out theorists who are completely useless at the job, I have met many such.
I simply cannot understand why Bursaries were removed, it is a total nonsense.
We should be training our own youngsters in jobs where we have a skills shortage.
The other point I would make is this, lack of a degree should be used as a reason to hold down wages or promotion.
13-06-2017, 03:36 PM
129
Re: The Polish and Others are leaving.
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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You need a degree for a decent position in nursing. Maybe not as an ancillary but for career advancement and access to well paid jobs. Not many want to do the very junior jobs because these are unpleasant and carry little status. Everything these days seems to need a degree even many secretarial jobs. Yes it is ridiculous that they did away with bursaries. But nobody seems to be suggesting this is reversed at present.
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