Re: Do you believe in Karma, Justice?

Yes, l believe in karma. Anyone who has ever been horrid to me, bothers me not!
I just bide my time and they get their comeuppance!

Re: Do you believe in Karma, Justice?

Yes, I think I do believe in Karma. As one example, imagine a parent who mistreats his/her own children. The children eventually grow to adulthood but the horrible memories remain. These children often develop emotional problems; some seek out a therapist, some do not. Anger can get to be a huge issue. As time rolls on, and the abused become more insightful, they have less and less contact with their tormentor. Some eventually sever all contact. For the abusive parent, surely this must be Karma.

What about the criminal ? For the ones who are caught and sent to prison, that is Karma. But what about the ones who do not get caught ? Do they live normal lives ? I think not. They must always have a fear of being caught. You and I go about our lives free from that fear.

Moreover, the criminals are cut off from "normal", whatever that means, people. We, the law abiding people, have contact and relationships based on love, caring, compassion, and the joys of life. For the criminal, however, he/she lives a life primarily surrounded by other criminals. Can the criminal ever be free from the constant vigil of being always on the alert for thieves, and potential violence from his/her so-called friends ? Is this not, Karma ?

Re: Do you believe in Karma, Justice?

Very good points, Mr Baker.

Re: Do you believe in Karma, Justice?

Wow, Monday's Child, did you ever get me thinking!

Karma? Nope. While it is an interesting concept, it is ultimately unkind in practice and is used to oppress the innocent and ignorant. It's unconscionable that child living in the garbage cities, barely surviving by sorting through the waste of the masses, is told to accept that fate because of something done in a previous life. That's not an attribute of a belief system to which I could adhere.

However Bruce is on to something with the physics. Consider that every day we detect events, like the discovery in August of two neutron stars colliding, that happened millions of years ago.

Suppose instead that the collision of the neutron stars had been one man killing another (with advanced detection). Although it happened eons ago, when when looking through the telescope, that murder would appear as if it was occurring in the present. Further, that murder continue to "happen" through space/time. In a sense, the murderer's karma is that he commits the murder, everywhere in space/time, and to all observers - again, and again, and again. The good and the bad, including this murder, are a permanent part of his legacy....and some might argue his karma, I suppose. While he is dead, his action lives on.

For whatever reasons, doing good and making good choices rings true; it gives us satisfaction and more importantly, (hopefully) brings about positive things for others. We don't do good things hoping that they are positive numbers in a very long equation that, at the end of our lives, will yield zero or greater. Likewise, we shouldn't expect such a system of scoring for others. Life is obviously more complex than the addition and subtraction of what we do.

I guess what I was trying to say is that there is good and injustice - but life just isn't fair.

Re: Do you believe in Karma, Justice?

Hi Artangel. Yes this is what I want to believe. That actions will bring about future effects to correct a wrongdoing. I suppose in my case its for revenge for things I am not able to do anything about myself to correct. Revenge is probably too strong a word for small actions against the person who suffers but maybe more of a slap for a slap rather than a eye for a slap if you get my jist.

For example last week at Sainsburys when I went to get my trolley I found one that had one of those token things in place of the pound coin still inside. I used the trolley and afterwards took it back to the trolley park but kept the token.
Last Sunday I went shopping there again, used the trolley token and when paying for my shopping submitted the reclaim part of the parking ticket for the £1 parking I had paid.
The cashier told me I could not have the £1 parking reclaimed as there is no parking charge levied on Sundays which I hadn't realised but had paid for. So despite gaining the £1 trolley token (one of which I tried to buy a week ago but they ran out) I lost the £1 I had paid for the unneeded parking fee.
Ok this is only something small but I would count that as Karma.



Hi bakerman.
I would agree that your first example of a mistreated child could be counted as Karma as the actions of the parents have brought about change in their future life by loosing contact with their child.
However not sure about the criminal example which I feel is more of a justice issue.
If a criminal commits a crime and is caught and punished that is justice. If not caught but instead gets away with the crime I feel that is escaping justice. Ok I see your point that they may have on their mind forever after about the crime they committed but I think that's more a conscience issue rather than Karma.
I feel that Karma is more of a spiritual thing where natural law takes over to balance the books so to speak, where as justice is more of a man made law to punish the crime and does not really reward the victim.
Don't know if you or anyone else would agree with this.

Re: Do you believe in Karma, Justice?

Karma in its religious form yes I would agree that using it to keep the downtrodden in their place, telling them that its their punishment for past lives lived wrong, or a test in the present life so that they can move onto another level in a future life is so totally wrong, but hey, that's religion for you and yet another issue or debate. That would be a hot one.
As I said in my above post I feel that Karma is more of a natural law, don't ask me who's administering it, but it concentrated more on how the books get balanced in life. I hope.

I think I see where you are going with the neutron stars example. But the man who commits murder back in space and time only commited the murder once in his space and time and no matter how many times it is seen from any distance it has still only happened the once. If he was caught for that crime it would be justice where as if he wasn't caught but something equally terrible happened to him that would be Karma, eg natural law.
I think I understand where you say we cannot go through life purposely trying to increase our points total to make our lives better but instead try to live in a way that doesn't affect to the detriment of others their lives.
I've probably got your post all wrong but bear with me I am thinking about it more.
I am assembling my own thoughts increasingly though on Karma being a natural law where justice is supposed to be administered by us.

Re: Do you believe in Karma, Justice?

I may have worded my post poorly. What I was trying to say that by the very company the criminal keeps, ie other criminals, he/she must always be on the alert for theft, violence etc.

Now, when you or I have friends over, we do NOT have to even think about such things We can trust our friends; the criminal can not.
Additionally, the criminal must always guard against "the rat", a person who will turn the criminal in to law enforcement, for the reward, or to escape prosecution. It is a very common tactic of the police to offer a reduced sentence or outright freedom in exchange for a "bigger fish".
We, never have to worry about that.
By choosing a criminal life, he/she has doomed him/her self to a life of constant worry.

Is this Karma ? Maybe, maybe not. Just something to ponder.

Re: Do you believe in Karma, Justice?

Hi bakerman please don't apologise for your post. I have to admit I am not a well educated person in the first place. The furthest I got in education was doing a degree in Environment Science which I had to leave due to pressure from my employers at that time saying the work I was putting in to get my degree would be detrimental to my work time.
I started the thread purely because I am interested in all sorts of issues in the world around us including the sillier subjects such as Karma. Plus its because I'm annoyed about being frustrated, powerless in dealing with what's going on in the world and some of the SOBs who just take advantage all the time. At least discussing things on here gives me others views on things which is really good.
However if someone did upset me I would have to add them to my list of people to kill. There's 47 people on there at the moment.
I did once ask my CBT Therapist who was suggesting at the time I made lists of things I want to work to accomplish and when I asked with a totally dead pan face whether my list of people to kill should be done alphabetically, the look of horror on her face till she realised I was joking.

Re: Do you believe in Karma, Justice?

In my view of the world you are making a convenient connection between two random events. You should have gone to tesco. When i lost my pound from a trolley they sent me a five pounds voucher as compensation ☺
When you complain to Sainsbury they send you a polite and contrite email but no money.

I think "the secret" has the best advice. Ask the universe for good things and it will deliver. Expect bad fortune and you will find it. We do have a great deal of influence on our fate via personal energy. There is no doubt a scientific basis for that.

Re: Do you believe in Karma, Justice?

If there is such a Thing it certainly takes it's sweet assed time in Most cases.