Our negotiating team need to be appointed on the basis of ability, not their political views, they need to be hard nosed pragmatists who can deliver a good deal for us.

Couldn't agree more Julie and JBR,

According to Vernon Coleman and other Constitutional experts, Britain isn't, and never has been a member of the EU as our entry was in violation of British law, and therefore invalid.
Apparently, in enacting the European Communities Bill through an ordinary vote in the House of Commons, Ted Heath's government breached the constitutional convention which requires a prior consultation with the people. (either by a general election or a referendum) on any measures requiring constitutional change.

Britain has no straightforward written constitution, but the signing of the Common Market entrance documents, was, without a doubt, a breach of the spirit of our Constitution.
Just weeks before the General Election which made him Prime Minister, Edward Heath declared that it would be wrong for any government contemplating membership of the European Community to take this step without the "full hearted consent of Parliament and the people".
However, when it came to it, Heath didn't have a referendum because the polls at that time (1972) showed that the British people were hugely opposed (a margin of 2 to 1) to joining the Common Market. Instead, Heath merely signed the documents that took us into what became the European Union on the basis that Parliament alone had passed the European Communities Bill of 1972.


So there we have it. Is it any wonder 17 million people want out! Though many will deny it, we Brits have always been insular. Even Charles de Gaulle knew it! This country was always a Maritime country, we have travelled to the four corners of the earth throughout our history, trading with the most distant countries.
So how the hell did we ever come to the point of being trapped into being just a second rate subservient country with a tiny voice alongside 26 other countries (actually, even less voice than the other 26) to the likes of Germany and it's pet monkey on its shoulder, France?
For decades we have struggled to respond from competition from within the EU. Does anyone remember the great British companies that have gone to the wall and disappeared?. Remember ICI? British Leyland? both huge conglomerates that were once household names here.
We need to be free again to trade with whoever we wish. No country should have a collar tied around its neck and yanked back when attempting to act on its own.
Throughout history, until 43 years ago, when we joined what was once foolishly described as the Common Market to entice us in, we have never been the servant of others, though many have tried!

So I thank God that the people of this country said "Enough" and voted with their cross to become once again what we have always been, and should never have had taken from us, An independent trading nation.

In fact, A pox on all those self-serving politicians throughout those 43 years, many now long gone in one form or another,but responsible for the instigation and taking part in the sacrifice of this country and it's people. They have a lot to answer for.

If this rant makes me sound like a "Little Englander", then so be it! I certainly won't lose any sleep over it. in fact I will wear my badge with pride.

Roll on 2019 !! VE Day again!

And Hammond is a hard nosed pragmatist?

They made us beg to join do you not remember they turned us down originally when we applied, then we went through hoops to be allowed to even talk to them again.

How exactly were we ever going to lead a group thought so highly of us they made us beg ?

Can't you see?

They didn't want us as an ally. They wanted to use us, just like the other countries of the EU, especially those in the south like Greece which are suffering the most.

They have been taking advantage of us from the outset. Don't you think that was their plan all along?

You are kidding yourselves.

Germany had nothing to do with the original veto on Britain's entry to the EU. It was entirely France and in particular de Gaulle after the appalling way Britain treated him during the war.

As for using you... They didn't use you, Britain was always half hearted about the EU, it didn't take part seriously, it quibbled about minor issues, it was obstructionist. The EU could have been the best thing for Britain (as it was for Germany) if it had taken an active part in the organisation but it didn't and it only has itself (and perhaps its inbuilt xenophobia) to blame.

Germany was in deep financial shit after reunification but it reformed as a united country and industrial power. Britain could have done that too but instead chose to wage war with itself, have riots in the streets and break down the very fabric of its society.

Frankly, if nations want to know how not to do things then Britain is the text book example. I despair for Britain.

As ye reap...

You are kidding yourselves.

Germany had nothing to do with the original veto on Britain's entry to the EU. It was entirely France and in particular de Gaulle after the appalling way Britain treated him during the war.

As for using you... They didn't use you, Britain was always half hearted about the EU, it didn't take part seriously, it quibbled about minor issues, it was obstructionist. The EU could have been the best thing for Britain (as it was for Germany) if it had taken an active part in the organisation but it didn't and it only has itself (and perhaps its inbuilt xenophobia) to blame.

Germany was in deep financial shit after reunification but it reformed as a united country and industrial power. Britain could have done that too but instead chose to wage war with itself, have riots in the streets and break down the very fabric of its society.

Frankly, if nations want to know how not to do things then Britain is the text book example. I despair for Britain.

As ye reap...

So much wrong with Britain we funded Germany rebuilding I believe, France was dreadful to us after we basically saved them ! I remember my grandad shaking his head when we begged to belong saying why did he lose family members in two world wars to beg to belong to this group ? I never had an answer that made any sense.

To make sure it didn't happen again.