17-11-2016, 12:22 PM
22
Re: The kinnocks
Oh Barry let's not get into unelected elite again...the only body in the EU which s appointed is one from each country_ and called th Commission...and which has no voting rights. It is like saying the Civil Service is not elected.Proposals for legislation come from ONLY the Council (elected heads of state) or the Parliament.
The legislation is passed to each country in draft form and voted on by every elected parliament. In the UK there is a Commons and Lords scrutiny committee which nods through or askes the bill to be advised on or debated .
How is that not unaccountable??
Tho I admit the populist light easy reads that are sold as news probably forgot to explain all that...
and I do see the UK as wanting to close itself off ...ie how to work with other like indeed govts. But the UK will find that harder than they think ATM.
17-11-2016, 12:25 PM
23
Re: The kinnocks
Originally Posted by Julie1962
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Loving my country doesn't blind me to others, we have immigrants in our family, they love UK too. People in other countries are allowed to be proud and love their countries, why is UK different. We can trade, welcome visitors, visit other countries, but still love our home country best.
I don't think anyone feels better than anyone else it's pure luck where you are born, but we have a lovely country here, would be mad to think it's not.
It really is another subject but IMO loving means where you feel most integrated, most comfortable.
Indeed the UK has some lovely things about it...so does France, the US, and all other countries.
It is harder to love a country that is not what you grew up in...but each of us values different aspects and maybe not be so anxious to ally ourselves to one. iMO
17-11-2016, 01:09 PM
25
Re: The kinnocks
Originally Posted by Flicker
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Re Realist's post...Well where is the conspiracy section of the site when you need one?
I will just say that the only times we as a planet have had wars, famines and poverty is when the countries repel others and put up borders.ie nationalism...or control via the emotive patriotism.
Both world wars were because of nationalism.
China had a terrible famine because the country closed itself off.
African states live in poverty because they still work as individual units.
No one has to choose between pride in their country and opening borders. That is nonsense. You can still be very proud of your country AND open access to it.
BTW all this rhetoric reminds me of white nationalist rallies.
I can't help but wonder WHO it is who wants power...and the terrible forces that quickly lead to racism, sexism, religious exclusion and other forms of discrimination.
Open borders?
Does a country not have the right to protect that which it has?
The wealth it has accrued?
The standard of living of it's citizens have made for themselves?
One country does a bit better so becomes a target for a horde of locusts to strip it bare before moving on to the next host.
17-11-2016, 01:38 PM
26
Re: The kinnocks
Originally Posted by Flicker
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Realist wants to close the UK off.
17-11-2016, 01:48 PM
27
Re: The kinnocks
Originally Posted by tregonsee
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open borders?Does a country not have the right to protect that which it has?
The wealth it has accrued?
The standard of living of it's citizens have made for themselves?
One country does a bit better so becomes a target for a horde of locusts to strip it bare before moving on to the next host.
17-11-2016, 02:26 PM
28
Re: The kinnocks
Originally Posted by Tregonsee
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Open borders?Does a country not have the right to protect that which it has?
The wealth it has accrued?
The standard of living of it's citizens have made for themselves?
One country does a bit better so becomes a target for a horde of locusts to strip it bare before moving on to the next host.
You already protect your borders. You are not in Schengen and you can refuse entry to anyone by way of immigration control at every port of entry.
The wealth you accrued is due largely tot eh EU and your permission to passport financial services...80% of your GDP. and by the work your immigrants do and the taxes they pay.
The UK is not any more a target for immigrants than other EU countries...ask Switzerland and Sweden. Don't be so self pitying that you are harder done to than anyone else.
Those locusts...an insulting terms and one that gets politicians into trouble, pay their way because they pay their taxes...where good wealthy white British born people may not.
17-11-2016, 02:40 PM
29
Re: The kinnocks
Originally Posted by Flicker
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You already protect your borders. You are not in Schengen and you can refuse entry to anyone by way of immigration control at every port of entry.The wealth you accrued is due largely tot eh EU and your permission to passport financial services...80% of your GDP. and by the work your immigrants do and the taxes they pay.
The UK is not any more a target for immigrants than other EU countries...ask Switzerland and Sweden. Don't be so self pitying that you are harder done to than anyone else.
Those locusts...an insulting terms and one that gets politicians into trouble, pay their way because they pay their taxes...where good wealthy white British born people may not.
I can't see why any country ever wants to have another layer of government here we already have two that cost us a pretty penny, we don't need another.
17-11-2016, 02:53 PM
30
Re: The kinnocks
Originally Posted by Julie1962
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Our wealth was really built on the back of the empire, not something we ever want to go back to, but I feel we owe our commonwealth countries far more than Europe and the eu. I can't see why any country ever wants to have another layer of government here we already have two that cost us a pretty penny, we don't need another.
It saves your parliament time and money in passing needed legislation which also makes your life easier because it applies to all of Europe. So you know that if you break a law in one country you re treated up tot e highest court in the same way as at home. Because you know that the item you bought in Belgium is the same standard under the same work rights as one bought in Bulgaria. That wherever you want to work you are protected by the same laws. Because the costs of marketing goods and services are far less than if you stood alone.
Yet you have full control over your own budget, health system, education system, social services, transport, infrastructure, can offer gilts and binds freely, invest in overseas businesses and they can invest in your country, maintain your own criminal law and most of your civil law, ie recognise marriages or not, can make or break treaties, declare war and rearrange internal boundaries, laws and taxation, working hours, minimum wages, much corporate law, planning and internal investment...etc.
You still have your own sovereignty and national identity, no matter what others may make up.
So you need a layer for international cooperation in making a living as a nation and one for internal organisation and budget decisions. and all the rest above.
Re your wealth I am afraid all that profit on tea disappeared after WW2 when the country was bankrupt. The wealth today was built on the membership of the EU.
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