Re: Once again

If the House of Lords was still as it used to be, mostly Hereditary Peers and some Bishops etc there might be a chance we could get some sensible oversight of the Commons since they had no vested interests as such and saw it as their duty to moderate some of the excess.
Since Blair and Brown screwed with it and then filled it full of their placemen there is no chance of that. Add to that the chief civil servants, who have been rewarded for just doing their job since, and surprise, surprise, turned out to be Remainers and the government were always going to have an uphill struggle Thank god the government don't have to accept their direction any more.

Re: Once again

It's true that before all of these life peerages the thing would have been far better. It is notable that there are probably far more Labour life peers now than Conservatives.

I still believe, though, that a fully elected body would be far preferable and much less likely to be corrupt and politically driven. I also believe that the number should be set at no more than 100, the same number as the US Senate which serves about five times as the population as our upper house.

The nation could be divided into ten regions (it already is for some purposes) of similar population and the voting public in each region could vote for ten people to serve in the upper house. I would prefer it if these people were not supported by any political party, but could be nominated by anyone or, perhaps, even themselves. Like the Commons, they should serve for a maximum period.

Re: Once again

Tricky one for me this, because I think it's ridiculous that we still have non-elected people influencing decisions made by an elected Government. I really hoped that we'd get rid of them, and the Royal Family, both an affront to democracy and a symbol of wealth and privilege, within my lifetime.

But in this case, I think they have done the right thing to push for the Customs Union. I agree with this article, that when negotiating Brexit the views of the 48% who wanted to stay in the EU and keep close ties should be taken into account. No one represents us at the moment and that's not democracy. So we have a non democratic body as the only group giving us a voice.

Re: Once again

nowt wrong with Aristocats.

Re: Once again

In a Disney film, they're grand, in real, not so much.

Re: Once again

Corbyn must be wetting himself with delight.

Already, the Brexit majority is likely to be brassed off with the handling of every part of Brexit since the vote.

It would be amazing if those voters didn't vote against those who failed to represent them ...or even refuse to vote, at all, because a vote is now obviously meaningless.

That will surely put Corbyn in power as long as he doesn't take any kind of side in the process.

Then the "Lords" have royally stuffed up - which gives Corbyn an excuse to dump them all - good or bad - and replace them with something of his own design - like a KGB?

And, whatever happens now, it seems ever more likely that we'll be trapped IN with even less influence than before it all started.

So, to sum up, we look likely to get a Corbyn Commie Government, lose the Lords, and give up all trace of Democracy.

Anyone see an alternative?

Re: Once again

The only alternative to the scenario you describe is for May to get her finger out and respect the majority vote in the referendum. She'd have to do it now, before it's too late, and to get us out properly - no half measures.

Fortunately, the Lords cannot prevent the Commons making a decision; they can just complain and oppose.

If she should grow a pair and get us out without any consequences the immediate threats will be over.

However, the unsatisfactory situation regarding the Lords will continue.

If we want to live in a true democracy, we must continue to push for the disestablishment of the House of Lords and its replacement by a democratically elected body.

I have no wish for us to lose the monarchy and peers of the realm provided they ALL (with the exception of the monarch and his/her consort) receive no financial support from the state. They can keep their titles for historical and traditional reasons, but deserve no state handouts or other legal benefits.

Re: Once again

I hope that you are right, JBR, but I have an increasing suspicion that TM is using words, to support Brexit, whilst her actions seem to be supporting the Remain view which she originally held.

She has shown little sign of serious negotiation.

If her hidden original plan was to remain, she seems to be achieving it.

Each piece she plays works in favour of the EU. Haven't see anything in favour of the UK.

I suspect we, Brexiteers, are being suckered!

Re: Once again

You could well be right, but I think she's playing a dangerous game.

She might think that Compo becoming PM is such a dangerous option, and for that reason she might feel quite secure even if she does fail to deliver Brexit.

Still, I wouldn't bank on it.

It might just happen that many Brexiteers decide to either vote for Compo or not bother voting at all, that she and the majority of her party would lose their seats.

In a way, I'd be happy to see May, Rudderless and other traitors lose their seats, but if Compo did get in we'd all be the losers.

Interesting times ahead.