Re: Bullying Smokers

I'm inclined to agree with you.
It is turning into the Saints castigating the Sinners isn't it.

Re: Bullying Smokers

And anyway ... it takes practice to smoke a ciggie with panache.
We're not all degenerate dead-head junkies.

Re: Bullying Smokers

WOW !
Sounds so modern - would love to do a tango to that one ...........

Re: Bullying Smokers

Julie1962 obviously has no friends &/or relatives who smoke. Has never had a friend who showed her how to smoke & hates the smell.
My Parents smoked, my Brother & Sis-in-Law used to smoke, some of my friends smoked & some still do.
I still smoke. My friends who showed me how, no longer smoke. In those days most people smoked.
They say there is no smoke without fire, but to date I have never burst into flames, yet anyway.
We are all entitled to our thoughts/feelings on smoking, but & I repeat myself here, as long as tobacco is not a banned substance we smoke it legally.
Most of us are considerate & obey the laws about pubs etc. I would never smoke in anyones home unless they too were smokers & said I could, I never smoke in others homes. If I want a ciggy I go outside.
In my own home I have a sun lounge to smoke in. I don't smoke in the house.

Re: Bullying Smokers

This is pure deflection from the debate at hand to be honest. We can have a separate debate about the rights and wrongs of fossil fuel transport and energy applications and how and why the powers that be ensure that we remain more or less reliant on such energy.

Meanwhile, back in the debate at hand, the fact remains that smoking was never ever a morally acceptable practice in public. The fact that it has taken governmental laws to force smokers not to do it, is wholly revealing of the moral attitudes of smokers.

Re: Bullying Smokers

Level of public participation in an activity is not an indicator of whether the activity is right or wrong.

The issue of smoking in public is not a legal one, it is a moral and social one. For example, regardless of whether or not playing a looped copy of Whitney Houston's "I will always love you" at full volume in my back garden non-stop 24hrs per day, is legal or not, does not in any sense make it right to do so. We don't need government officials to potty train and hand hold us on such issues. We should know instinctively whether such an activity is morally and socially acceptable and act accordingly.

Smokers have for years ignored that responsibility and clung to the poor and somewhat indefensible notions that because loads of other people did it, it must be ok to do likewise.

I say again. It is not and never has been about obeying laws. There is personal responsibility here, nothing else. No-one should be thinking is acceptable to put toxic fumes into a public room. The laws have had to be put in place because most smokers were not considerate in the first place. Many still are wholly inconsiderate and grumble at being forced to be socially responsible.

Re: Bullying Smokers

So you prefer to decline to answer? That's a shame. I thought you might but had hoped you wouldn't chicken out.

It's not a deflection from the topic at hand at all.
You have turned a thread about smokers into a personal , epic exposition about your disapproval, dislike and disgust of a minority group. A group who you seem to think have polluted the world and jeopardised the world populations health more than any other product or invention known to Man.

You said ..
We can have a separate debate about the rights and wrongs of fossil fuel transport and energy applications and how and why the powers that be ensure that we remain more or less reliant on such energy.

Just a minute .. no indignant outcry , no standing up to be counted and taking responsibility for yourself for adding to world pollution? What a cop out. Where's your sense of moral conscience now?

the fact remains that smoking was never ever a morally acceptable practice in public.

That's a fact is it? In your perception of the world. You have set yourself up an incredibly moralizing Crusader.

Re: Bullying Smokers

So when you put your car key in your ignition, mayhap humming along to Whitney Houston. and hear that purr of an engine starting up. .. you think .. what?
And when you hear the MET office issuing Poor Air Quality Alerts for asthmatics you think .. damn them smokers for polluting the air .. as you pull up at the traffic lights, chugging toxic fumes out of your rear end.
I actually find it sad that people exist who set themselves up as some kind of model for us all to emulate .. and yet show such a disregard for other people and only know how to rant.

You never answered. Do you, or have you ever driven a car and contributed to risking other people's health.

I guess rigor mortis will set in whilst I wait for an answer to that one.

Re: Bullying Smokers

I did answer. I offered to have a separate debate on the issue of fossil fuels. It is a completely different issue, despite the fact that both topics have an area of overlap in regards to emission of toxic fumes. I repeat I will gladly have a debate on fossil fuels and energy provision but it should be in a different thread. It's worth doing as I honestly think I would learn a lot from such a debate.

I didn't say any such things. ?

However I "set myself up" I maintain that the practice of lighting up in a public place is not and can never have been a morally or socially acceptable practice. Will you debate this assertion? Do you agree with it? If not, on what grounds do you refute it?

Re: Bullying Smokers

Ah ... now we're getting somewhere. Who needs a separate debate now you've acknowledged that both topics ..... have an area of overlap in regards to emissions of toxic fumes. ... without confirming whether you personally drive a car. I will take no answer as no denial.

So you want to debate your assertion that to light up in a public place is not, never has been and can never be morally or socially acceptable?
Okay.. think on this... before you bully smokers in a thread titled Bullying Smokers, that, I must say, you have done justice to and rose to the challenge.

Decades ago when the risks of second-hand smoke were not known, smoking was allowed inside public buildings. Note .. this was allowed even when it had been established that smoking was detrimental to the health of the smoker themselves. No whiff of immorality was thrown at smokers then.

Next , having medical evidence of the dangers of second-hand smoke a ban was introduced in public buildings, namely pubs, or enclosed confined spaces.
I know of no smokers who have flouted this Law and been fined for smoking inside a public building. They complied. Most smokers have voluntarily isolated themselves to a 'smoking den' even within their own homes. And at this point they have become social lepers ... subjected to accusations of selfishness or other horrible character flaws.

The objective .. stigmatise smoking to discourage the habit. Make them feel dirty, second class citizens. Meanwhile the government slap on exorbitant Duty and have introduced plain packaging. All measures applauded by the people who want clean air and a healthy environment to live in.

And then we have this thread ... where not content with the current measures we have the idea, warmly welcomed by some ... that smoking should be banned outside in all public places.

Which is where it starts to sound like a witch hunt. And a tad hypocritical.
Why?
Imagine if you will a busy town centre. Traffic abounds, cars and buses and lorries congest the roads and queue at traffic lights ... chugging out their toxic emissions. On a cold winter's day you can see the clouds of vapour wreathing from the exhausts.
And there is a bus stop. At the bus stop stands a lone smoker, waiting for the bus, standing apart from other people ... because the shelter has a canopy roof so it is now illegal for the smoker to stand underneath the shelter.
And correct me if I am wrong ... but the new restrictions would totally remove the smoker from standing smoking amongst the miasma of traffic fumes ... in a bid to create cleaner air?
So in effect .. it's okay for a smoker to have to inhale traffic fumes created by motorists? But they must not pollute the air themselves with those big industrial chimneys they smoke called cigarettes.

That is the morality you are so keen on.
Whereas I just call it what it is ... I call it ridiculous hypocrisy.