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26-02-2018, 11:18 AM
1

The Ottoman Empire and Bedu

Although it had been mentioned repeatedly on umpteen threads it's seems that some still can't get their heads around what made up the Ottoman Empire .
It was a huge Empire ruled by the Ottoman Turks and covered a vast expanse of the Middle East .
The Ottoman Empire was broken up due to the Ottomans having sided with Germany in the firat world war




"The partition of the Ottoman Empire (Armistice of Mudros, 30 October 1918 – Abolition of the Ottoman Sultanate, 1 November 1922) was a political event that occurred after World War I and the occupation of Constantinople by British, French and Italian troops in November 1918. The partitioning was planned in several agreements made by the Allied Powers early in the course of World War I, notably the Sykes-Picot Agreement. The huge conglomeration of territories and peoples that formerly comprised the Ottoman Empire was divided into several new states.[3] The Ottoman Empire had been the leading Islamic state in geopolitical, cultural and ideological terms. The partitioning of the Ottoman Empire led to the rise in the Middle East of Western powers such as Britain and France and brought the creation of the modern Arab world and the Republic of Turkey. Resistance to the influence of these powers came from the Turkish national movement but did not become widespread in the post-Ottoman states until after World War II. The League of Nations mandate granted French Mandate for Syria and the Lebanon and British Mandate for Mesopotamia (later Iraq) and British Mandate for Palestine, later divided into Mandatory Palestine and Emirate of Transjordan (1921-1946). The Ottoman Empire's possessions in the Arabian Peninsula became the Kingdom of Hejaz, which was annexed by the Sultanate of Nejd (today Saudi Arabia), and the Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen. The Empire's possessions on the western shores of the Persian Gulf were variously annexed by Saudi Arabia (Alahsa and Qatif), or remained British protectorates (Kuwait, Bahrain, and Qatar) and became the Arab States of the Persian Gulf."

Re the Normadic tribes
These are known as the Bedu or Bedouin .
They roamed all over the area now known as Egypt Iraq Israel and Syria .
They live by herding animals usually sheep and goats and follow the pastures according to the seasons .
They don't own the land they just wander although the modern day world has lead to increasingly permanent settlements .
The are all over the ME although new borders obviously restrict them somewhat they still pass over them to a certain extent .
They are not , as many seem to think confined to Israel
Although many Bedouins do live in the Negev desert .
In recent years many join the IDF as trackers indeed as do increasing amounts of Israeli Arabs .
Let us lose this misunderstanding that their land has been taken from them they rarely unless settled own any .
As usual and erroneously it's being used again as a stick to beat and demonise Israel.
It is the same with normadic tribes all over the world
The modern world has closed in on them be they in the Middle East or the jungles of Borneo or South America .
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26-02-2018, 11:53 AM
2

Re: The Ottoman Empire and Bedu

As I believe very little of your propaganda about Israel, that's a danger if you can't see some Israelis aren't that pleasant, I am not too bothered about this.

If the area was empty it would make no difference the people settled were mainly Europeans you will never convince me they had a claim on an area in the Middle East. Never.


Because if we accept that we have to accept what happened in USA and Australia was acceptable and I struggle with that too.

Taking other people's lands has been a terrible indictment of our western arrogance.
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26-02-2018, 11:53 AM
3

Re: The Ottoman Empire and Bedu

Yes? And?
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26-02-2018, 01:26 PM
4

Re: The Ottoman Empire and Bedu

Very good point, Muddy and as ALL Bedouins were given Israeli citizenship, all those years ago , that answers a LOT of questions !
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26-02-2018, 05:54 PM
5

Re: The Ottoman Empire and Bedu

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
As I believe very little of your propaganda about Israel, that's a danger if you can't see some Israelis aren't that pleasant, I am not too bothered about this.
No you prefer to believe hook line and sinker in the propaganda peddled by you smiling Iman I know because I can recognise it ! Not to mention utter nonesense spewed out from some entities with a grudge they can't resist exercising .
Why not just study a bit of history instead?

If the area was empty it would make no difference the people settled were mainly Europeans you will never convince me they had a claim on an area in the Middle East. Never.
Dear me this is racism .
Do you need a blood test to have a ' claim '
BTW The Ottoman Empire was divided up BEFORE the State of Israel was founded .

Because if we accept that we have to accept what happened in USA and Australia was acceptable and I struggle with that too.

Taking other people's lands has been a terrible indictment of our western arrogance.
Oh dear our "western " arrogance I hear the voice of grievance again .
The whole world was has been divided intp empires from time immemorial
The Roman Empire
The Greek Empire
The Spanish Empire the Portuguese
The Egyptians rules over vast lands
The Ottoman Empire was Islamic so I supose that alright in your eyes
The Incas had an Empire long before the Spanish ( westerners ) got there .
The Zulus had a huge Empire too .
The age of Empires is past but one cannot revisit history it is as it is we can't give back land -although some ethnic people have had land returned this is but a small part ( as in Australia and America .
All civilisations rise and fall that is the way of the world .
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26-02-2018, 05:58 PM
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Re: The Ottoman Empire and Bedu

So you have to be unpleasant about a man you haven't met ? He hasn't even been mentioned in the discussion before so where did that nasty little comment come from ?

If what I said was racist then welcome all comers to uk because to not do that must be equally racist.
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26-02-2018, 06:08 PM
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Re: The Ottoman Empire and Bedu

Because I recognise it Julie .
Remember I have lived in Islamic countries for a third of my life .
And they were good times but I recognise the whole grievance riddance
"Western '" blame thing.
Ask yourself If we are so rotten why have so many people from countries like Pakistan an Islamic come to live in the west ?
Why ?
Why don't they all stay in the east ?
It's a simple question .
Also your total loathing for Israel .
It's a poorly hidden secret that Muslims are taught to hate Isreal .
They may have no connection with the MIddle East at all they may live in Indonesia or Bradford wouldnt know an Israeli unless he walked in with the Star of David on his chest
Yet still they hate Israel and in fact hate Jews (let's not have any of that weasely Zionist nonsense )
They may do it with smiles but they do it .

Sadly there is a strain of anti-Semitism running through Islam, and a loathing of Jews is firmly rooted within both our Muslim communities in the uk and in Muslim countries from Turkey to the Indonesian archipelago. This does not mean that all Muslims are anti-Semites but Islamic anti-Semitism is a fact — and recognised as such by plenty of enlightened Muslim writers, such as Mehdi Hasan.

Here’s what he had to say on the issue: ‘It pains me to have to admit this but anti-Semitism isn’t just tolerated in some sections of the British Muslim community; it’s routine and commonplace. Any Muslims reading this article — if they are honest with themselves — will know instantly what I am referring to. It’s our dirty little secret. You could call it the banality of Muslim anti-Semitism.’

It is only three or four years ago that the Muslim Council of Britain, refused to take part in Holocaust Day, so great was its animus toward Britain’s Jewish community.
It's sad but it's true.
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26-02-2018, 06:13 PM
8

Re: The Ottoman Empire and Bedu

That gets my vote for what it’s worth
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26-02-2018, 11:54 PM
9

Re: The Ottoman Empire and Bedu

Don't really understand why the Muslim Council of Britain should have to take part in Holocaust Remembrance Day.
Two sides to every coin, and as the Muslims would apparently be loathed as much by the Jews, there is little difference between one and the other so far as I can see.

Why did Bedouins have to pay taxes on land the didn't own ?

Why did Bedouins have to be Nomadic ?

Where the Hebrews never nomadic tribes ?

Where the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews, not of Persian origin ?



The more I read into all of this, the more it appears that the treatment of the Negav Bedouins can be put on a par with the American Indians . It's fookin disgusting !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negev_Bedouin

(Beersheba is an historically, ancient Bedouin encampment in the Negev)

When Beersheba was occupied by the Israeli army in 1948, 90% of the Bedouin population of the Negev voluntarily left with the expectation that they would return when Israel lost their war for independence – mainly to Jordan and Sinai peninsula.[40] Of the approximately 110,000 Bedouin who lived in the Negev before the war about 11,000 remained.[37]
The first Israeli government headed by Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion opposed the return of the Bedouin from Jordan and Egypt. At first he wanted to expel the few remaining Bedouin but changed his mind. The lands were nationalized and the area was declared a military zone. The government saw the Negev as a potential home for the masses of Jewish immigrants, including 700,000 Jewish refugees from Arab lands. In the following years, some 50 Jewish settlements were established in the Negev.[41]
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27-02-2018, 02:06 AM
10

Re: The Ottoman Empire and Bedu

Originally Posted by Puddle Duck ->
Don't really understand why the Muslim Council of Britain should have to take part in Holocaust Remembrance Day.
Two sides to every coin, and as the Muslims would apparently be loathed as much by the Jews, there is little difference between one and the other so far as I can see.
Why not ?
Think of one good reason why one group as part of the British community should not join in out of common respect for such a terrible event ?
Those who died did nothing against Islam .
They did nothing against Christianity either and it was Christians who murdered them .

There are no two sides to this coin .
Six million Muslims were not murdered in concentrations camps
But under other circumstances they could have been .
We all feel for the plight of the Syrians not because they are of any one faith but because they are many innocent being killed .
We all loath ISIS because of its senseless and cowardly murder of innocent people .

Muslims live safely and hopefully protected by our laws as are all British citizens .Yet the rise in anti semitism has lead to increasing attacks against Jews here in the UK and it cannot be denied that this has conincided with the rise in Islam in this country .
People don't like to say this but sadly it's true .
Muslims themselves are targeted too by right wing nutters and other extremists but the Jews thanks to general brainwashing get both.


The more I read into all of this, the more it appears that the treatment of the Negav Bedouins can be put on a par with the American Indians . It's fookin disgusting !
Rubbish there is no wounded knee of the Bedouins.
On the contrary the Bedouins engender a spirit of the Middle sadly their lifestyle is passing .
It is the advance of the modern world which has made them leave their traditional pastimes and get standard jobs .
Others want a more settled life with education for their children.
As they become settled they have to pay taxes like anyone else.
I notice you are only concentrating as usual on Israel yet there are or were Bedouins all over the middles East .
where are the Bedouins of Egypt ?
Don't they pay taxes ?
Of course they do if they are settled and their case their tradition herding lands have been used to build hotels and infrastructure .
Ditto in Iraq Syria ( where they are now in the same boat as other Syrians ) in Saudi Arabia they prefer cars to camels being the ruling families as the house of said came from the desert.

I am lucky to have experienced knowing the Bedouins whilst I was in Jordan and used to ride through the desert .i would often stop and have tea with them -they are very hospitable .
I lived for three years in Karak the Bedouin capital so most of the people there were originally Bedouins .
Yet even in Jordan where they are respected things change life changes nothing stands still for ever.
 
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