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swimfeeders
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28-11-2017, 06:42 AM
1

Brexit a view from abroad.

Hi

I find it interesting to read what others abroad are thinking about Brexit.

I do not always agree with their views, but they are useful in understanding how others see us.

http://www.dw.com/en/brexit-diaries-...tum/a-41556189
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28-11-2017, 06:59 AM
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Re: Brexit a view from abroad.

That article is more or less what is being reported here. The British negotiators are variously described as 'inept' or 'incompetent'

What I also found interesting was another article on the same web site exposing the duplicity of the leave campaign:

According to data published by Britain's National Office for Statistics on Tuesday, the UK's contributions to the European Union were at a four-year low of 9.4 billion pounds (€10.7 billion, $12.4 billion) in 2016. This means that the UK paid only half the amount Brexit advocates claimed in the run-up to the country's referendum on leaving or staying in the bloc.

Proponents of the campaign to leave the European Union, like Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, made much of the number 350 million pounds – the amount they claimed that Britain paid to the EU each week, and thus the amount that would be saved if the country left the bloc.

However, the Leave campaigners often neglected to mention a 1984 rebate deal that saw the actual number come out much lower, at only about 181 million pounds, or just 1.2 percent of government spending. Figures like Johnson also left out the funds that Britain received from the EU for infrastructure and development projects, including money for universities and other key institutions.
I think it is fair to say that the impression here is still largely that Britain is sliding over an economic precipice with no plan for the future. Certainly watching Brexit from a distance is very interesting, but be assured the vultures are hovering waiting to pick up any tasty bits left over.
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28-11-2017, 07:11 AM
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Re: Brexit a view from abroad.

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
That article is more or less what is being reported here. The British negotiators are variously described as 'inept' or 'incompetent'

What I also found interesting was another article on the same web site exposing the duplicity of the leave campaign:



I think it is fair to say that the impression here is still largely that Britain is sliding over an economic precipice with no plan for the future. Certainly watching Brexit from a distance is very interesting, but be assured the vultures are hovering waiting to pick up any tasty bits left over.
It's less an observation and more a narrative.

A bit like how a bully justifies it's cruel behaviour.

It's easier o discriminate and cause harm to someone/something when you disparage and dehumanise.

We have long memories here though and the actions of the EU, Ireland and, indeed, Australia, will live long in the British psyche.
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28-11-2017, 07:20 AM
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Re: Brexit a view from abroad.

Originally Posted by Moscow ->
It's less an observation and more a narrative.

A bit like how a bully justifies it's cruel behaviour.

It's easier o discriminate and cause harm to someone/something when you disparage and dehumanise.

We have long memories here though and the actions of the EU, Ireland and, indeed, Australia, will live long in the British psyche.
Hi

Whatever we think of the EU, the one thing that is common to the views expressed around the world is that our negotiating Politicians are pretty useless.

My son is in Taiwan, and the view there is the same.

Liam Fox in particular is viewed as being incapable of understanding things when it comes to Trade Negotiations.
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28-11-2017, 08:24 AM
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Re: Brexit a view from abroad.

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

Whatever we think of the EU, the one thing that is common to the views expressed around the world is that our negotiating Politicians are pretty useless.

My son is in Taiwan, and the view there is the same.

Liam Fox in particular is viewed as being incapable of understanding things when it comes to Trade Negotiations.
The reason our negotiators are not doing well is because they never thought it would happen! When Cameron allowed this referendum he believed we would remain, instead of making plans on how to deal with things whichever way the vote went..... so I was not surprised that he got our quickly!

I really don't care what any other country thinks because leaving the EU was a decision made by British people for Britain, and the remainers who complain about it are showing they were just as ignorant as Cameron was. Sadly they are still trying to change it and that is what is causing all the bad press.
A united country, where all are fighting for the same outcome, will make the leaving easier.
I really don't think anybody wanted to go to war in WW2, but they all did and suffered the problems that the war created together!, rather than fought among themselves for selfish reasons. What happened to the country, where we all stand together and fight for the same cause.... whether we wanted it that way or not?
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28-11-2017, 08:48 AM
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Re: Brexit a view from abroad.

Originally Posted by Twink55 ->
The reason our negotiators are not doing well is because they never thought it would happen! When Cameron allowed this referendum he believed we would remain, instead of making plans on how to deal with things whichever way the vote went..... so I was not surprised that he got our quickly!

I really don't care what any other country thinks because leaving the EU was a decision made by British people for Britain, and the remainers who complain about it are showing they were just as ignorant as Cameron was. Sadly they are still trying to change it and that is what is causing all the bad press.
A united country, where all are fighting for the same outcome, will make the leaving easier.
I really don't think anybody wanted to go to war in WW2, but they all did and suffered the problems that the war created together!, rather than fought among themselves for selfish reasons. What happened to the country, where we all stand together and fight for the same cause.... whether we wanted it that way or not?
Hi

I have to disagree Twinks, I am of the opinion that it really does matter.

What they think of Brexit itself does not matter, I agree with that, it was our decision, nothing to do with them.

What they think about our negotiators does matter

Liam Fox has upset a lot of WTO Members, this has a direct effect on how soon we can do Trade Deals and how successful they will be for the UK.

The object of the exercise is to make a success of Brexit and expand our trade with the rest of the world.

Upsetting those we want to develop deals with is not a good start.
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28-11-2017, 09:05 AM
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Re: Brexit a view from abroad.

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

I have to disagree Twinks, I am of the opinion that it really does matter.

What they think of Brexit itself does not matter, I agree with that, it was our decision, nothing to do with them.

What they think about our negotiators does matter

Liam Fox has upset a lot of WTO Members, this has a direct effect on how soon we can do Trade Deals and how successful they will be for the UK.

The object of the exercise is to make a success of Brexit and expand our trade with the rest of the world.

Upsetting those we want to develop deals with is not a good start.
I agree with that, but surely keeping things out of the press ( which I assume is where you get all the info on disagreements) would be the best option!
There are crossed swords at all big business negotiations, but, if they were mentioned in the world press, share prices would go down and the people involved would be less likely to back down.
We all have a different opinion on what the Brexit negotiators should do, but surely we need to let them do their job, after all we were the people who voted them into parliament!
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28-11-2017, 09:52 AM
8

Re: Brexit a view from abroad.

Originally Posted by Moscow ->
It's less an observation and more a narrative.

A bit like how a bully justifies it's cruel behaviour.
I agree and while people with their own agendas write articles criticising the lack of progress by our negotiators (who were given an unenviable task in the first place because no preparation had been been for a leave vote) they fail to acknowledge there is no 'negotiation' at all from the other side just a fixed immovable agenda and a desires to see our humiliation on the world stage for having the temerity to leave the 'club'.

I wish May would just put a time limited take it or leave it offer on the table and when it is declined (as it would surely be) we walk away taking our chance.
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28-11-2017, 10:02 AM
9

Re: Brexit a view from abroad.

Originally Posted by Meg ->
I agree and while people with their own agendas write articles criticising the lack of progress by our negotiators (who were given an unenviable task in the first place because no preparation had been been for a leave vote) they fail to acknowledge there is no 'negotiation' at all from the other side just a fixed immovable agenda and a desires to see our humiliation on the world stage for having the temerity to leave the 'club'.

I wish May would just put a time limited take it or leave it offer on the table and when it is declined (as it would surely be) we walk away taking our chance.
Hi

The view that Liam Fox is not doing well has nothing at all to do with the EU.

It is criticism from non EU Countries who we are hoping to continue trading with as we do now and those who want to to either expand on existing agreements or develop new ones.

As far as the EU are concerned, they have a fixed position on all Trade Deals, a very simple position, if you are not in the Single Market, you are a Third Country and they will only sign deals if those deals meet their criteria.

In spite of that they are expanding their trade deals, with Canada and Japan and others in the pipeline.

For the UK to have upset our traditional trading partners such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand right at the start is not in our best interests.
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28-11-2017, 11:26 AM
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Re: Brexit a view from abroad.

Isn't this the sort of thing we should expect from the EU? What they are trying to do is writing and spreading this misinformation to undermine the UK negotiators so that talks collapse and we walk away with nothing and they avoid the blame.

Up to now these have never been negotiations but a series of take it or leave it ultimatums and demands issued by the EU. In most negotiations there is give and take on both sides but so far there has been none of that from the EU. In the face of that we would be better to walk away now.

All the B/S about plucky Ireland being Steamrollered by Brexit is laughable.

What the Republic and the EU want is a United Ireland and are using the situation to try to achieve that despite the six counties of the North wanting to stay in the UK. Its not so long ago that the Irish needed two Referendums (the second one at the insistence of the EU), to decide to stay in the EU.
At present the Irish Government is on the verge of collapse, they can't even agree between themselves.

Its time we stopped believing what other countries say and start to believe in our ourselves and our negotiators a bit more, after all if the deal they come up with is not good enough then Parliament will have the final say.
 
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