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JBR
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JBR is offline
Cheshire, UK
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23-03-2017, 12:06 AM
691

Re: Gay marriage

Originally Posted by Azz ->
Dispute what exactly? Gender? You not been listening to anything anyone here or what experts in the field have been saying?

Humans are generally on a spectrum. Most people are not hard straight or hard gay. Neither is everyone either 100% masculine or 100% feminine.

You have such a black and white, prehistoric view of the world.
I still maintain that physically there are but two genders. I await proof that I'm incorrect.

And yes, I'm happy to be a prehistoric dinosaur. Sorry if that upsets you, but I'm sure you will be even more upset to learn that I am not alone.
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JBR
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JBR is offline
Cheshire, UK
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23-03-2017, 12:07 AM
692

Re: Gay marriage

Originally Posted by Rehab44 ->
Steer away..it's getting personal...
No worries; some of us can take it.

When people become personally offensive, it is a sign that they have lost the argument!
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Azz
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23-03-2017, 12:43 AM
693

Re: Gay marriage

It upsets and saddens me to think that in this day and age people still hold on to what many consider hateful opinions and views about such matters.

The ones I truly feel sorry for are the children and relatives of such people - how horrible it must be to secretly (or increasingly, not so secretly) despise your own parents or family because they make clear how little they actually respect or love you.

I suppose at the end of the day it's the small-minded folk with intolerant views that lose out - on some of the most precious relationships they'd otherwise have.
JimmyC
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23-03-2017, 02:43 AM
694

Re: Gay marriage

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
There was more than you I was addressing Jimmy, you aren't alone in your views at all which I find sad. I've never been made to feel anything in my life, we all chose his we react to people different to ourselves, I chose acceptance and to let them live equally in our society. Let them marry, have kids and live happy lives.
Well, Julie, that's where I disagree with you again.

(a) You, (and everybody else alive), have been made to feel certain things. It's just that you were not aware that you were being made to. Eg, you see a poo-filled nappy, and you go, "Urk!" and quickly remove it. Why? Because that's exactly what your Mum did when you were a baby. The memory of that "lesson" made you go "Urk!" You'll always go "Urk!", as long as you live. No choice in the matter.

You witness a car accident; blood, severed limbs etc. You don't think, "Hmmm, will I be shocked by that, or not?" No, you're shocked, automatically. The sight makes you shocked; and ill, upset, alarmed, anxious, etc.. because the sight connotes pain, gross suffering, fear, death, horror, etc..

We're all Pavlov's Dogs, Julie. We just like to believe we're not.

You declare that you "choose" to accept people who are different than you. But really, I think you only choose to accept those who are are grossly different than you. Anyone else is fair game. I guess that's a kind of reverse elitism.

If your tolerance was genuine, and across-the-board, and not just an affectation, you'd be quite sanguine towards me despite my different views on homosexuals. You'd be unaffected by anything I said about them. You certainly wouldn't feel "sad" to find that so many others agree with me.

And once again, I see I have to reiterate, I am not against homosexuals! As I've said repeatedly in this thread, and will continue to say, I only expect homosexuals to give the rest of us the same privilege that they're always so militantly demanding - to be free to have a different opinion and to be free to express it without being given any derogatory labels. They don't accept being labelled "poofters". Fine, I don't accept being labelled a "homophobe".


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JimmyC
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23-03-2017, 03:15 AM
695

Re: Gay marriage

Originally Posted by Azz ->
It upsets and saddens me to think that in this day and age people still hold on to what many consider hateful opinions and views about such matters.

The ones I truly feel sorry for are the children and relatives of such people - how horrible it must be to secretly (or increasingly, not so secretly) despise your own parents or family because they make clear how little they actually respect or love you.

I suppose at the end of the day it's the small-minded folk with intolerant views that lose out - on some of the most precious relationships they'd otherwise have.
There's a fairly common Logical Fallacy in the discipline of Logic, whose name I can't recall at the moment, but whose parameters your post above meets.

It's a "trick" used in argument whereby one party deliberately "reinterprets" what the other party has said, and then addresses and attacks the new interpretation, rather than addressing the original statement.

To make it clear, you should go back and read every post I've made on this subject. You'll find that I have not made a single statement that indicates any "hatred" of homosexuals by myself. Nor have any of my statements been worthy of being "hated" by anyone. Disagreed-with, opposed, refuted, maybe... but surely not hated. Some might "choose" to hate them, but then, as you'd no doubt say, we all have a right to choose......

Obviously you know perfectly well that I've said nothing intrinsically offensive, because you qualified your opening sentence with the phrase, "what many consider"...

But it's your second paragraph that best illustrates the logical fallacy at work. You've somehow managed to introduce the unrelated issue of "parent - child" hatred into the mix, (always an emotive issue), and transferred my view about homosexuals on to that new backdrop and then offered your sympathy to me for having that issue! And of course you know I can have no response to that, because it is utterly unrelated to anything I've said!

To top it off, you offer the opinion that I'm "small-minded" and don't know what's good for me.

Well, I suppose I should thank you, because in your post you've managed to make me look so much less the bigot than you do.

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JimmyC
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Posts: 395
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23-03-2017, 03:38 AM
696

Re: Gay marriage

Originally Posted by Azz ->
Dispute what exactly? Gender? You not been listening to anything anyone here or what experts in the field have been saying?

Humans are generally on a spectrum. Most people are not hard straight or hard gay. Neither is everyone either 100% masculine or 100% feminine.
"Experts"? I would have thought every living human being is an expert in this field. How do those "experts" measure the percentage of masculinity/femininity in their test subjects? How much femininity would they detect in, say, Ernest Borgnine", (I tried to find an example from modern public figures but failed).

How much masculinity is there is in Julia Roberts, Kylie Minogue, Kate Bush, etc etc, to name a few from the recent past.

And you equate "masculinity" and "femininity" with "sexual orientation"!! Isn't that a non-no?! Aren't some homosexual men alleged to be very "masculine"? And are all lesbians fat and hairy and ugly?

You don't know what you believe!

You have such a black and white, prehistoric view of the world.
So do you, obviously, but you fail to recognise that fact!

Or you don't want to admit it.



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Azz
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23-03-2017, 06:21 AM
697

Re: Gay marriage

Originally Posted by JimmyC ->
To make it clear, you should go back and read every post I've made on this subject. You'll find that I have not made a single statement that indicates any "hatred" of homosexuals by myself. Nor have any of my statements been worthy of being "hated" by anyone. Disagreed-with, opposed, refuted, maybe... but surely not hated. Some might "choose" to hate them, but then, as you'd no doubt say, we all have a right to choose......
Here's one I spotted within seconds of looking:

Originally Posted by JimmyC ->

In their hearts and souls they probably don't consider themselves "perverted", but really, let's face it, having sexual relations with one's own gender is a perversion of the act. We might tolerate them and all that, and might even have gay friends, but no straight person would feel inclined to copy their sexual practices. It just wouldn't occur to us. Why? Because it isn't, as they say, "natural" to our nature.

If something's not "natural", it's, well, unnatural; it's a "perversion"of what's natural.

There's no getting around that, even with the best will in the world.
*sigh. There are no studies that suggest gay people are any more or less perverted than straight people.

Your post also helps demonstrate my earlier point. It's clear that you care little about our gay members or members with gay family members by calling them or their loved ones 'perverted', but can you just for a second imagine how a gay son or daughter might feel after learning that's what their parents really think of them? It really is quite abhorrent. Shameful.

In light of these remarks coming to my attention, the thread is being closed.

I am also going to review our policy regarding the airing of hateful opinions under the guise of debate.
 
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