03-03-2017, 07:27 PM
21
Re: Tebbitt the hypocrite!!!
Originally Posted by Rainmaker
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The interesting bit is Mrs May offered to negotiate an arrangement about the status of both the British in the EU and EU residents in Britain some time ago with the EU. She was rebuffed by France and Germany. Why should we now want give away our strategy. The trouble.with the Lords is their are too many people who were elevated beyond their abilities.
03-03-2017, 07:32 PM
22
Re: Tebbitt the hypocrite!!!
Originally Posted by Rainmaker
->
The interesting bit is Mrs May offered to negotiate an arrangement about the status of both the British in the EU and EU residents in Britain some time ago with the EU. She was rebuffed by France and Germany. Why should we now want give away our strategy. The trouble.with the Lords is their are too many people who were elevated beyond their abilities.
It is quite clear that they are not there because of their political abilities or, more importantly, their loyalty to their country.
03-03-2017, 07:34 PM
23
Re: Tebbitt the hypocrite!!!
HiThe uncertainty is now starting to hurt.
We are actually losing EU Nurses already here and less are arriving.
The matter needs resolving, however it is not the UK who are causing the problem, it is the EU insisting that no talks take place until Article 50 commences and even then, there will be no piecemeal negotiations, they want it all as one package.
03-03-2017, 08:10 PM
25
Re: Tebbitt the hypocrite!!!
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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HiThe uncertainty is now starting to hurt.
We are actually losing EU Nurses already here and less are arriving.
The matter needs resolving, however it is not the UK who are causing the problem, it is the EU insisting that no talks take place until Article 50 commences and even then, there will be no piecemeal negotiations, they want it all as one package.
03-03-2017, 08:23 PM
26
Re: Tebbitt the hypocrite!!!
Originally Posted by Rainmaker
->
The interesting bit is Mrs May offered to negotiate an arrangement about the status of both the British in the EU and EU residents in Britain some time ago with the EU. She was rebuffed by France and Germany. Why should we now want give away our strategy. The trouble.with the Lords is their are too many people who were elevated beyond their abilities.
03-03-2017, 08:23 PM
27
Re: Tebbitt the hypocrite!!!
It's all very well taking the high moral ground if you're quite happy to be taken advantage of. The future of this country is far to important to be gifted to those who would quite happily take advantage. When it comes to bargaining with the EU there is no such thing as moral high ground.03-03-2017, 08:33 PM
28
Re: Tebbitt the hypocrite!!!
Originally Posted by APRICOT
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I have heard on the the grapevine that there is a petion to abolish the HOL.Can"t find it though, which is a shame as I would gladly sign it.
Unfortunately, I couldn't remember the address, so I googled it only to find that there are several(!), most of which came back as 'rejected'. Perhaps the tentacles of the 'Establishment' are more extensive than I imagined.
However, I did find this one, which is current:
https://www.changebritain.org/petition/lords/
and this:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/170686
03-03-2017, 09:07 PM
29
Re: Tebbitt the hypocrite!!!
Originally Posted by Rainmaker
->
It's all very well taking the high moral ground if you're quite happy to be taken advantage of. The future of this country is far to important to be gifted to those who would quite happily take advantage. When it comes to bargaining with the EU there is no such thing as moral high ground.
Starting with a generous and transparent standpoint, which is in the interest of a number of important stakeholders and is also in our interest makes sense.
It removes barriers and disarms the opposition. Playing manipulative games with the lives of people who have contributed a great deal to our economy will alienate them, alienate their home nations (whose alliance we need during voting) and shoot ourselves in the foot in the long run.
Theresa May is playing a very dangerous game if she thinks this is a card in her pack. She may look down and find that card no longer exists or is replaced with a dud.
03-03-2017, 09:36 PM
30
Re: Tebbitt the hypocrite!!!
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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I don't really understand what you meant by being taken advantage of, but a negotiation is a psychological process. Starting with a generous and transparent standpoint, which is in the interest of a number of important stakeholders and is also in our interest makes sense.
It removes barriers and disarms the opposition.
Unfortunately, all I have heard from the EU mandarins with regard to Brexit are warnings and threats.
Do you honestly believe that handing them a concession - that immigrants from the EU may remain here indefinitely - will result in them offering the same for British ex-pats?
They have already said that they will not talk about individual issues, but will accept only a single unified package. What's more, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that 'package' included a non-negotiable provision of free movement.
With an attitude like that, it makes me wonder whether we should just tell them our terms and offer them the choice of taking them or leaving them.
We should give them a time limit in which to make up their minds, say six months. After that, we leave and trade (if they want to) under WTO rules.
Whatever happens, I hope that TM applies Article 50 when she said she would.
What I expect to happen is a lot of arguing for the next two years, with the EU becoming increasingly more willing to submit to our demands as time passes on the basis that they will become increasingly more worried!
I believe that we still hold all the cards.
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