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Realist
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29-03-2018, 04:44 PM
11

Re: Passwords

Originally Posted by Omah ->
Give RoboForm a try - it's free for all your devices - tablet, phone, PC .....

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...siber.roboform

Be prepared to spend some time testing it so that you can decide how you want to use it, for example:

- Automatically save new login information when you login to websites.
- View and Edit your Logins, Bookmarks, Identities, and Safenotes.
- Synchronize your RoboForm data with multiple computers and mobile devices.

Once it's set up then you only have to remember ONE password (and even that can be overriden, if desired).
This all sounds inherently dangerous.

Any kind of "password manager" essentially means all of your eggs are in one vulnerable basket. If someone hacks the password to your password manager then wouldn't they then have access to all your passwords?

On a similar vein I believe the recording of any passwords ANYWHERE on a computer is a crazy thing in the extreme.
Computers get viruses, Trojans, and get hacked. Why leave passwords hanging around anywhere on that medium?

And to follow up on that core principle I make it a point of absolute discipline to NEVER tick the pop up option for a computer or a website to "Automatically Remember You".

That is absurdity in the extreme.

It means that somewhere, out there, and/or on your PC, there is a file being kept with your login and password details for all such websites that you foolishly ticked that option.

Using such things makes people really lazy about security. It means they don't have to worry about remembering logins and passwords because THE COMPUTER will do it all for you . . . which when you think it through is stupid. It's data sitting there with your credentials waiting to be picked up by a virus or hacker.

If you are serious about security then there should be no trace of passwords on your PCs or anywhere else. You should be MANUALLY logging in to every website that has a login and password by which discipline you will always be familiar with your passwords because you are constantly using them.

I have a wide range of passwords. Some are based on a variety of system, some are not. I know them all because I am disciplined and do everything manually. My router password, ISP provider password, bank passwords, forum passwords, email passwords and so on. One doesn't need to be a super memory genius to do this, it only requires discipline and a sensible approach.
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Omah
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29-03-2018, 06:01 PM
12

Re: Passwords

Originally Posted by Realist ->
This all sounds inherently dangerous.

Any kind of "password manager" essentially means all of your eggs are in one vulnerable basket. If someone hacks the password to your password manager then wouldn't they then have access to all your passwords?

On a similar vein I believe the recording of any passwords ANYWHERE on a computer is a crazy thing in the extreme.
Computers get viruses, Trojans, and get hacked. Why leave passwords hanging around anywhere on that medium?

And to follow up on that core principle I make it a point of absolute discipline to NEVER tick the pop up option for a computer or a website to "Automatically Remember You".

That is absurdity in the extreme.

It means that somewhere, out there, and/or on your PC, there is a file being kept with your login and password details for all such websites that you foolishly ticked that option.

Using such things makes people really lazy about security. It means they don't have to worry about remembering logins and passwords because THE COMPUTER will do it all for you . . . which when you think it through is stupid. It's data sitting there with your credentials waiting to be picked up by a virus or hacker.

If you are serious about security then there should be no trace of passwords on your PCs or anywhere else. You should be MANUALLY logging in to every website that has a login and password by which discipline you will always be familiar with your passwords because you are constantly using them.

I have a wide range of passwords. Some are based on a variety of system, some are not. I know them all because I am disciplined and do everything manually. My router password, ISP provider password, bank passwords, forum passwords, email passwords and so on. One doesn't need to be a super memory genius to do this, it only requires discipline and a sensible approach.
I prefer not to spend what's left of my life on password management .....
Realist
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29-03-2018, 09:12 PM
13

Re: Passwords

Originally Posted by Omah ->
I prefer not to spend what's left of my life on password management .....
Understood, but when the password of your password manager software gets hacked you'll spend your life undoing all the outfall.
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29-03-2018, 11:38 PM
14

Re: Passwords

Originally Posted by Realist ->
Understood, but when the password of your password manager software gets hacked you'll spend your life undoing all the outfall.
I'll let you know WHEN, until then it's only IF .....

Until then, millions of RoboForm business and personal customers can sleep easily in their beds .....
Mel15
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29-03-2018, 11:57 PM
15

Re: Passwords

I just let my OS decide the password and its linked to all my devices

The only one I don't allow it to remember or make for me is my bank

If anyone wants to hack my FB or here, good luck to them
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30-03-2018, 10:50 AM
16

Re: Passwords

I use a password manager called Keepass which is a free download. I like it because it has versions for Windows, Android and Linux so I sync the password file between PC, phone and tablet. However it is probably no better or worse than any others but get the v1.35 you won't need the features of the V2.3 (or what ever number they are up to now).

You can safely ignore the foil beanie brigade with their daft warnings about keeping passwords written down on paper or in a book. The people who break into your house and steal your computer or TV are not the same people who are interested in your passwords.

Arguably the best place for passwords is on paper or in a book kept at home.
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30-03-2018, 11:14 AM
17

Re: Passwords

Originally Posted by Realist ->
Understood, but when the password of your password manager software gets hacked you'll spend your life undoing all the outfall.
Your talking out of ignorance again. There can be up to three keys needed to open a password file a password, a key file plus another account - the key file does not need to be kept on the computer in use.



These programs generate random passwords according to many criteria.



They even create random key files for you.



Even better they remember them all for you.

Your system of passwords is far more inherently dangerous because it is a 'system', hack one and you have got the lot using that system.

A password such as "EveryDayIReadTheGuardian" is safer than your method.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...-accounts-safe
Realist
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30-03-2018, 12:59 PM
18

Re: Passwords

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
Your system of passwords is far more inherently dangerous because it is a 'system', hack one and you have got the lot using that system.
Not true in practice because different systems are in use for different websites and types of websites. I only posted up a very basic system as an example of the type of thing one can use.

But this is tired old ground we've been through before.

When you can tell me what system is being used here then I'll be worried:

aw(Barclays1869

sd&Twitter958

fh%Gmail136

This isn't my system btw purely an example of a system that could be used. From knowing just one of those passwords you would never work out others. Even knowing the 3 above it's not obvious.
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Bruce
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31-03-2018, 02:47 AM
19

Re: Passwords

Originally Posted by Realist ->
Not true in practice because different systems are in use for different websites and types of websites. I only posted up a very basic system as an example of the type of thing one can use.

But this is tired old ground we've been through before.

When you can tell me what system is being used here then I'll be worried:

aw(Barclays1869

sd&Twitter958

fh%Gmail136

This isn't my system btw purely an example of a system that could be used. From knowing just one of those passwords you would never work out others. Even knowing the 3 above it's not obvious.
Three printable characters followed by the URL name followed by a number? if that is not a system I don't know what is. I think even I could write a brute force program to crack that using VBA.

There are only 3 characters that actually need to be discovered the rest are known or easily calculated - how long does it take a computer to count from 0 to 9999?

Finding three characters out of 223 printable characters? not a big challenge!

Frankly I would not recommend anybody takes password advice from you.
Realist
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31-03-2018, 03:32 PM
20

Re: Passwords

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
There are only 3 characters that actually need to be discovered the rest are known or easily calculated - how long does it take a computer to count from 0 to 9999?

Finding three characters out of 223 printable characters? not a big challenge!
Hmmm I guess probabilities and stats were not your major at school then !!

Just taking those first 3 chars. Firstly you ASSume that there are only 3 because there are only 3 in the examples given but there could be more. But regardless, let's take it as 3. There are roughly 80 chars in the Ascii character set that they will come from. Thus the number of different combinations for just those 3 characters is:

80 x 80 x 80 = 512,000

Then let's take the 3-4 digits at the end of the password. Again you don't know how many digits there should be, the examples clearly show it can vary but for the sake of highlighting the idiocy in your comments let's take it as 4 digits.

The number of permutations for a 4 digit number are:

10 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 10,000

Therefore at very best you're having to find 3 chars in over half a million and 4 digits in 10,000 but if the 3 chars are related in some way to the 4 digits then you are effectively looking at combinations of both which would be 5,120,000.

Now whilst we could both knock up a 5 minute VBA programme to generate all those possible permutations what you CAN NOT DO is try each of them to see if they are the correct password.

Google for example would let you try 3 password before it locked the account.

A bank likewise would work similarly.

Your task would be impossible.

Whereas, if you were to jot all your passwords down in some silly book I could break into your house steal it and wreak havoc.
 
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