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Realist
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11-11-2017, 02:57 PM
81

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by Racker View Post
It goes without saying, that the way the EU is "governed" at the moment, is in desperate need of change. Britain *in* the EU would have great influence in that process. Whereas Britain *out of* the EU......

The EU is in need of an overhaul; I think, EU members should work on that. Not by getting out, but by "changing the system from within".
This is laughable. They've been trying to reform the corrupt fraudulent EU for ages with no success. The EU bureaucrats consider themselves a law unto themselves. By stealth and skulduggery they moved Britain into the UK, not giving the populous any referendum on that life changing event.

It's a cesspit. Corrupt to its very core.

It's becoming clear imo you are an EU stooge. I am seeing more and more of them on various forums, creeping in, quietly trying to brainwash people into supporting the EU.

Understand. The majority of the people of Britain are "awake" and have seen the approaching menace and equally understand the fraudulent way in which politicians (EU stooges) have walked all over the British Constitution and sold the country down the river into foreign hands. Those are acts of pure treason plain and simple and every last man jack of them should be tried for treason.

Of course the prime EU stooge BLiar along with HM the Queen recently had the treason penalty changed from death to life imprisonment . . . . how very convenient !

BrExit is the best thing to happen to this country for countless years.

Yes it will be painful as all divorces are.

Yes it will be messy as all divorces are.

But being married to permanently drunk, obsessive and corrupt partner takes it toll and in the end divorce is necessary. Ask any wife of an alcoholic !

The people of Britain should be utterly proud that they have had the strength to stand up and make this decision. Their grand-parents and great-grand parents (who would be absolutely fuming in their graves seeing what skulduggery has transpired) would be very proud too. Were they alive today they would likely march en-masse to Brussels and throw out all the corrupt megalomaniacs there in short fashion.

Britain CAN exist within Europe whilst being a sovereign country and so can all the other member states itching to exit the EU too.

It is only the corrupt media machinery of the EU, controlled by its elite stooges that tries to convince everyone that it's all a terrible idea.

I don't listen to the EU's "Wormtongue" lies and propaganda.

I love Europe. I love the European people. I love my country.

But I don't want my country owned and run by a set of megalomaniacs who, when you pull the curtains back, are a bunch of Communists.

BrExit is good. It is needed.

Though I still do not believe it will be allowed to happen.

And thereby will all know that democracy is a sham.

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Moscow
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11-11-2017, 06:55 PM
82

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by Racker View Post
I'm sorry to say, your perception of the modern world seems a little outdated to me. While Britain is and always physically will be an island, on a worldwide scale it is not. Economically there are no Islands anymore. Surrounding waters will no more protect a country nowadays, than an ancient city-wall from the days of old.

This is, what I'd call typical "Island nearsightedness". Either in or out the EU, Britain will always be part of Europe. In the EU Britain will be part of decision- making. From outside the EU Britain will have to meekly follow. Before you start demonizing me as a "Remaniac": plse note that, as I said earlier: as a Dutchman I stand totally neutral between Brexiteers and Remainers.

May I remind you (again), that WWII is seventy odd years behind us? You speak of the generation that actually DID fight against the Germans. That includes my own my (late) father, as I told you before. I'd strongly advise you to talk to the remaining members of *that* generation. I wouldn't be surprised if you'd learn, that the majority of those brave men and women are in favor of an united Europe. Maybe not in the way the EU has developed, but still: united; thus banning the threat of another European war...

Feeling a bit "Trumpy" today?? Exactly. Talk. Negotiate. Talk and negotiate again. Use your brain, not your fists... Let me quote one of my favorite Brits (who sadly perished by violence himself), that says it all:
Seriously Racker ?

You need to get out more!

You say you are a neutral and yet nothing you say points to your imagined neutrality.

You confuse the EU with Europe and are seemingly a fatalist consigning yourself and the UK to the inevitability of EU domination......

What is it you really don't like about Brexit? The fact that you Dutch folk are left on the wrong side of the argument and your ego won't accept that? ( Just like the Remainers)

Your 'talk, negotiate talk negotiate don't use your fists 'statement is laughable. The fact that I , and others, have made many statements on the subject of Brexit and you have not moved one jot towards our position shows the futility of talking to Europhiles. Our response is to walk away , no fists ( What was that all about???) and do business with more agreeable partners.
I think your inability to see the validity of the Brexit option and the smugness of your attitude points to the fact that you're a troll with nothing useful to say
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JBR
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11-11-2017, 08:09 PM
83

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by Realist View Post
This is laughable. They've been trying to reform the corrupt fraudulent EU for ages with no success. The EU bureaucrats consider themselves a law unto themselves. By stealth and skulduggery they moved Britain into the UK, not giving the populous any referendum on that life changing event.

It's a cesspit. Corrupt to its very core.

It's becoming clear imo you are an EU stooge. I am seeing more and more of them on various forums, creeping in, quietly trying to brainwash people into supporting the EU.

Understand. The majority of the people of Britain are "awake" and have seen the approaching menace and equally understand the fraudulent way in which politicians (EU stooges) have walked all over the British Constitution and sold the country down the river into foreign hands. Those are acts of pure treason plain and simple and every last man jack of them should be tried for treason.

Of course the prime EU stooge BLiar along with HM the Queen recently had the treason penalty changed from death to life imprisonment . . . . how very convenient !

BrExit is the best thing to happen to this country for countless years.

Yes it will be painful as all divorces are.

Yes it will be messy as all divorces are.

But being married to permanently drunk, obsessive and corrupt partner takes it toll and in the end divorce is necessary. Ask any wife of an alcoholic !

The people of Britain should be utterly proud that they have had the strength to stand up and make this decision. Their grand-parents and great-grand parents (who would be absolutely fuming in their graves seeing what skulduggery has transpired) would be very proud too. Were they alive today they would likely march en-masse to Brussels and throw out all the corrupt megalomaniacs there in short fashion.

Britain CAN exist within Europe whilst being a sovereign country and so can all the other member states itching to exit the EU too.

It is only the corrupt media machinery of the EU, controlled by its elite stooges that tries to convince everyone that it's all a terrible idea.

I don't listen to the EU's "Wormtongue" lies and propaganda.

I love Europe. I love the European people. I love my country.

But I don't want my country owned and run by a set of megalomaniacs who, when you pull the curtains back, are a bunch of Communists.

BrExit is good. It is needed.

Though I still do not believe it will be allowed to happen.

And thereby will all know that democracy is a sham.

Well said, Realist. I agree with every word.

Whereas I understand people from other European countries trying their best to keep us under the jackboot, what I really cannot stand is some of our own people - fifth columnists - who are trying all the skulduggery they can think of to hand us back to the Brussels dictators.

Some of these people are simply naive; others, I'm sure, have reasons for their personal benefit or advancement for doing so. You mentioned BLiar, and he is the biggest money-grabbing back-stabber I can think of.
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Freespirit
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11-11-2017, 09:33 PM
84

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by Realist View Post
This is laughable. They've been trying to reform the corrupt fraudulent EU for ages with no success. The EU bureaucrats consider themselves a law unto themselves. By stealth and skulduggery they moved Britain into the UK, not giving the populous any referendum on that life changing event.

It's a cesspit. Corrupt to its very core.

It's becoming clear imo you are an EU stooge. I am seeing more and more of them on various forums, creeping in, quietly trying to brainwash people into supporting the EU.

Understand. The majority of the people of Britain are "awake" and have seen the approaching menace and equally understand the fraudulent way in which politicians (EU stooges) have walked all over the British Constitution and sold the country down the river into foreign hands. Those are acts of pure treason plain and simple and every last man jack of them should be tried for treason.

Of course the prime EU stooge BLiar along with HM the Queen recently had the treason penalty changed from death to life imprisonment . . . . how very convenient !

BrExit is the best thing to happen to this country for countless years.

Yes it will be painful as all divorces are.

Yes it will be messy as all divorces are.

But being married to permanently drunk, obsessive and corrupt partner takes it toll and in the end divorce is necessary. Ask any wife of an alcoholic !

The people of Britain should be utterly proud that they have had the strength to stand up and make this decision. Their grand-parents and great-grand parents (who would be absolutely fuming in their graves seeing what skulduggery has transpired) would be very proud too. Were they alive today they would likely march en-masse to Brussels and throw out all the corrupt megalomaniacs there in short fashion.

Britain CAN exist within Europe whilst being a sovereign country and so can all the other member states itching to exit the EU too.

It is only the corrupt media machinery of the EU, controlled by its elite stooges that tries to convince everyone that it's all a terrible idea.

I don't listen to the EU's "Wormtongue" lies and propaganda.

I love Europe. I love the European people. I love my country.

But I don't want my country owned and run by a set of megalomaniacs who, when you pull the curtains back, are a bunch of Communists.

BrExit is good. It is needed.

Though I still do not believe it will be allowed to happen.

And thereby will all know that democracy is a sham.

Well done Realist, you have pretty well summed up the EU in just a few words. I am fully with you , JBR and Moscow on this one, 100%.

We just have to hope that Mrs May and Gavin Williamson do not sell us out on Monday, 13th November by signing us up fully into ‘PESCO’.

Apparently, she is in Brussels on Monday talking to Business men about the Transition period, seems very convenient as the PESCO meeting for signing is also happening on Monday. See my other thread ‘EU - PESCO Defence and Intelligence’ .

My fingers have been busy trying to email as many MPs as I can trying to stop her signing our Defence away.
Ref link: http://veteransforbritain.uk/vfb-chairman-speech/
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Racker
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14-11-2017, 10:34 AM
85

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by Realist View Post
This is laughable. (...)

It's becoming clear imo you are an EU stooge. I am seeing more and more of them on various forums, creeping in, quietly trying to brainwash people into supporting the EU.
That's what we call here: demonizing your opponent. Exactly what happened in the US of A during the latest elections. Now, if I were to argue in your fashion, I'd say something like "It's clear to me now, you're not British at all... you're an undercover Yankee, trying to destabilize Britain and/ or the EU from within" Lucky for you, that's not my way of arguing...

Originally Posted by Realist View Post
Understand. The majority of the people of Britain are "awake" and have seen the approaching menace and equally understand the fraudulent way in which politicians (EU stooges) have walked all over the British Constitution and sold the country down the river into foreign hands. Those are acts of pure treason plain and simple and every last man jack of them should be tried for treason..

Of course the prime EU stooge BLiar along with HM the Queen recently had the treason penalty changed from death to life imprisonment . . . . how very convenient !
I shall not repeat myself, but you're quite obviously proving my point here.

Originally Posted by Realist View Post
BrExit is the best thing to happen to this country for countless years.

(......)

And thereby will all know that democracy is a sham.
(.....)
I rest my case....
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Racker
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14-11-2017, 11:23 AM
86

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by Moscow View Post
Seriously Racker ?

You need to get out more!

You say you are a neutral and yet nothing you say points to your imagined neutrality.
If you'd have read my initial post, you'd know that I merely pointed to an out-of-the-box solution, that wouldn't cost Britain a penny and would give the British countries a chance to make arrangements among themselves. With the EU standing toothless on the sideline.

Originally Posted by Moscow View Post
You confuse the EU with Europe and are seemingly a fatalist consigning yourself and the UK to the inevitability of EU domination......
I merely pointed out that Britain is, and always will be, in Europe. EU member or not.

Originally Posted by Moscow View Post
What is it you really don't like about Brexit?
In truth: it's of no intrest whatsoever to me, personally. The only reason I'm still taking part in this discussion is, that I'm amazed and fascinated by the half/twisted truths and the excited, disputable personal opinions (more than often posted as facts) that are used to overcome each other in this thread.

Originally Posted by Moscow View Post
(....) Our response is to walk away , no fists ( What was that all about???)
Begging your pardon.... I was under the impression that it was you that brought up the war....
Originally Posted by Moscow View Post
and do business with more agreeable partners.
I think your inability to see the validity of the Brexit option and the smugness of your attitude points to the fact that you're a troll with nothing useful to say
Assumptions... assumptions... I think I made myself quite clear on this point in my reply to Realist: http://www.over50sforum.com/showthre...89#post1274689
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swimfeeders
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14-11-2017, 11:57 AM
87

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Hi

We voted to leave, it was our decision that the EU was not for us.

What I do not understand is this constant criticism of the EU.

The decision to leave has been taken, what the EU is or is not, is really nothing to do with us at all now.

The remaining members can stay in, it is their choice, or they can leave, again their choice.

We have chosen to leave the biggest trading block in the world and in doing so we are not only leaving the Single Market, we are leaving every Trade Agreement we had as part of the EU.

The EU is under no obligation at all to give us a Trade Deal,any Trade Deal, most certainly not the one we want.

It is not the EU who has fixed a date for leaving and then asked for a Transition period because they are not ready to leave on that date, it is the UK who has done that.

It is not the EU who has objected to the UK continuing with other Free Deals, it is the other Countries who have said no and objected to the WTO, annoyed by our arrogance in telling them what deal they will be giving us.

We may or may not get a Free Trade Deal with the EU, they will offer the UK what suits them, not what suits the UK.

That is the way of the world.

Even tiny New Zealand has objected to the UK's proposals.

A Trade deal with the USA will require we open our market up to factory farmed, GM fed, antibiotic stuffed beef and pork and chlorine washed chicken.

India has said no deal unless we allow more immigration for Indians wanting to come and work in the UK.

Instead of arguing amongst themselves and generally messing things up, our Politicians need to do what we elected them to do, which is to make sure we leave on the day with as many deals as possible in place.
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Purwell
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14-11-2017, 12:36 PM
88

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Anyone with any brains can see that leaving the EU is going to be a disaster for this country, so only power mad politicians with tiny brains will want anything to do with it.
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Racker
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14-11-2017, 12:43 PM
89

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by swimfeeders View Post
Hi

We voted to leave, it was our decision that the EU was not for us.(.....)

Instead of arguing amongst themselves and generally messing things up, our Politicians need to do what we elected them to do, which is to make sure we leave on the day with as many deals as possible in place.
To paraphrase your parliament: "Hear, hear!" This sums it up exactly.
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OldGreyFox
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14-11-2017, 08:53 PM
90

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Originally Posted by swimfeeders View Post
Hi

We voted to leave, it was our decision that the EU was not for us.

What I do not understand is this constant criticism of the EU.

The decision to leave has been taken, what the EU is or is not, is really nothing to do with us at all now.

The remaining members can stay in, it is their choice, or they can leave, again their choice.

We have chosen to leave the biggest trading block in the world and in doing so we are not only leaving the Single Market, we are leaving every Trade Agreement we had as part of the EU.

The EU is under no obligation at all to give us a Trade Deal,any Trade Deal, most certainly not the one we want.

It is not the EU who has fixed a date for leaving and then asked for a Transition period because they are not ready to leave on that date, it is the UK who has done that.

It is not the EU who has objected to the UK continuing with other Free Deals, it is the other Countries who have said no and objected to the WTO, annoyed by our arrogance in telling them what deal they will be giving us.

We may or may not get a Free Trade Deal with the EU, they will offer the UK what suits them, not what suits the UK.

That is the way of the world.

Even tiny New Zealand has objected to the UK's proposals.

A Trade deal with the USA will require we open our market up to factory farmed, GM fed, antibiotic stuffed beef and pork and chlorine washed chicken.

India has said no deal unless we allow more immigration for Indians wanting to come and work in the UK.

Instead of arguing amongst themselves and generally messing things up, our Politicians need to do what we elected them to do, which is to make sure we leave on the day with as many deals as possible in place.
Good post Swim. In a global economy it does appear that we might have shot ourselves in the foot...
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