Join for free
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Fruitcake's Avatar
Fruitcake
Senior Member
Fruitcake is offline
Somerset Riviera
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,096
Fruitcake is male  Fruitcake has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
19-10-2017, 09:54 PM
11

Re: Aldı car park fine

Originally Posted by Missy ->
So glad I live in NI where these Cowboys have no jurisdiction what so ever

I was issued two, on the same day , at an Asda car park. I found the guy issuing them and asked was the ticket an invitation to pay. He agreed , I said no thanks and handed him the tickets and went on my way

Never heard a thing since

Appeal to your MPs to stop these thieving toe rags
In NI, (and Scotland) only the driver can be held liable. As long as the parking scammers don't know the identity of the driver, there is no cause for alarm.

Unfortunately in England and Wales the keeper can be held liable. No other country in the world allows this.
Fruitcake's Avatar
Fruitcake
Senior Member
Fruitcake is offline
Somerset Riviera
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,096
Fruitcake is male  Fruitcake has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
19-10-2017, 10:05 PM
12

Re: Aldı car park fine

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
Something I realised the other day is these companies can't fine you that's true but if they take it to court they can fine you there. So it's not good to ignore these things.
A court can hold the motorist liable for the parking charge notice, and can add costs. These are still not fines but once a judge has held in favour of the parking company, they are enforceable.
Not paying would result in the parking company asking for an enforcement order.
Not paying that would result in a CCJ.

Ignoring a parking charge notice has not been advised since the law changed in 2012, but they can and should be challenged and appealed.

Originally Posted by fender ->
These so called fines are actually an unenforceable invoice.

They tried the same with us and lost badly. Threatened ccj's etc etc.
I'll see if I still have the letters I sent them. It stopped them in their tracks - scumbags!
As above, the invoices are unenforceable, but parking scammers are increasingly using the courts as a cheap method of debt collection.

Don't forget that the parking companies have up to six years in England and Wales (five in Scotland) to take someone to court for non payment, so if you are still within that timeframe it may not yet be over. If you move home within that six year period, make sure you tell the parking company.

Originally Posted by fender ->
They can request it's cancelled regardless, as can any business who operates from a shopping centre...
It depends on what is in the contract between the landowner and parking company. Several landowners have found to their cost that they can't get PCNs cancelled, and some have found they can't cancel the contract without paying massive penalties.

Not all businesses in a retail park can get PCNs cancelled if they do not own the land.
fender's Avatar
fender
Chatterbox
fender is offline
SE England
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 6,286
fender is male  fender has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
19-10-2017, 10:30 PM
13

Re: Aldı car park fine

They win "sometimes" as people rarely know how to defend when they receive court papers.

You put them in their place immediately and they won't bother to issue proceedings. If they get stubborn and do, it's an easy defense and they will withdraw.
Fruitcake's Avatar
Fruitcake
Senior Member
Fruitcake is offline
Somerset Riviera
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,096
Fruitcake is male  Fruitcake has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
20-10-2017, 08:39 AM
14

Re: Aldı car park fine

Originally Posted by fender ->
They win "sometimes" as people rarely know how to defend when they receive court papers.

You put them in their place immediately and they won't bother to issue proceedings. If they get stubborn and do, it's an easy defense and they will withdraw.
Some give up before court, some take it all the way. Parking eye went all the way to the Appeal Court and then the Supreme Court with Barry Beavis, and they won.

Parking companies issue millions of court papers a year. Winning "sometimes" means they win hundreds of thousands of cases per year.

Putting them in their place only works with a few companies. If you are dealing with an IPC member then you will meet a level of intransigence that is similar to that of the North Korean government.

Defending a court case is not as easy as you suggest. It takes a lot of time, research. (New) pre-action protocol has to be followed, defence statements generated, evidence and rebuttal evidence produced, making sure you insist on a verbal not paper hearing, and everything has to be submitted in the right order and on time.
Then you play judge bingo. Some will be on your side and some won't.

Parking Eye are The most litigious parking company in the country and send out about 30 000 court papers per year.
This is why it is much better to get a landowner cancellation as in this case by scot, or get it killed off at PoPLA if the company is a BPA member, again as in scot's case.

If it's an IPC member, your appeal WILL be rejected and then you could be dealing with a company of solicitors renowned for churning out court papers by the cartload who don't care what you say. They get paid win or lose and WILL take things all the way to court.

Yes you are right that many people ignore or don't respond vigorously enough and then end up paying or losing in court. You are right to "put them in their place immediately" but unfortunately it doesn't always work.

The Government is complicit in this whole unregulated affair because the DVLA rakes in millions of pounds every year by selling keeper details to parking companies.
Before the law changed in 2012, parking court cases numbered less than one thousand per year. Now they number in the hundreds of thousands.

Everyone who gets an unfair private parking charge should research it and fight it, and complain to their MP.
scot37
Senior Member
scot37 is offline
Aberdeenshire
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,262
scot37 is male  scot37 has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
20-10-2017, 01:53 PM
15

Re: Aldı car park fine

I have been in touch with Aldi and they are getting in touch with Parking Eye to resolve the matter.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/dundee-...ebts-1-4585558
A recent case in Scotland.
Fruitcake's Avatar
Fruitcake
Senior Member
Fruitcake is offline
Somerset Riviera
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,096
Fruitcake is male  Fruitcake has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
20-10-2017, 04:55 PM
16

Re: Aldı car park fine

Originally Posted by scot37 ->
I have been in touch with Aldi and they are getting in touch with Parking Eye to resolve the matter.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/dundee-...ebts-1-4585558
A recent case in Scotland.
I am an idiot. I didn't realise that you are in Scotland. The Protection of Freedom Act 2012 does not exist in Scotland so there is no keeper liability.
As long as parking eye do not know the identity of the driver there is absolutely nothing they can do.
As long as you read the info on the other site I told you about, you would have spotted that anyway.

The case reported by that newspaper is well know in the unfair parking ticket community. In the case of that particular lady, the parking company knew that she was the driver. Having got one ticket, she continued to park where she shouldn't and got multiple tickets. It was very easy for the parking company therefore to prove that she was the driver and keeper, and having got her name and address from the DVLA, they were able to pursue her through the Scottish courts as the driver.

The keeper however cannot be held liable in Scotland and cannot be taken to court by a parking company, only the driver.
This is why it is important not to identify the driver in Scotland and NI.

Even when the driver's identity is known, it is unusual and rare for court to happen in Scotland. There has to be more money at stake than the odd single PCN for a parking company to even think about it as it costs more than they win.

So, as long as you appealed to parking eye as keeper and didn't reveal the driver's identity, you are safe.
Even if the driver was identified, because this is an Aldi car park, I believe the hidden clause will mean the driver is still safe from prosecution.

Again, my apologies for not making this clear at the start.

For anyone else reading this, in Scotland and Northern Ireland, unfair private parking tickets can and should be ignored because the parking companies cannot take the keeper to court, even if they know who it is. By ignoring them you can't accidently reveal the driver's identity.

In England and Wales, unfair private parking charges should not be ignored.

In all of the UK, never reveal the driver's identity except in very specific, well researched circumstances when you really, really know what you are doing. Even then, triple check what you are doing before giving away the driver's identity.

Revealing the driver's identity in general is not advised in the rest of the UK, but in some cases a driver appeal can be an advantage if say it is for residential parking in one's own owned or rented space.
fender's Avatar
fender
Chatterbox
fender is offline
SE England
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 6,286
fender is male  fender has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
20-10-2017, 06:35 PM
17

Re: Aldı car park fine

Originally Posted by Fruitcake ->
Some give up before court, some take it all the way. Parking eye went all the way to the Appeal Court and then the Supreme Court with Barry Beavis, and they won.

Parking companies issue millions of court papers a year. Winning "sometimes" means they win hundreds of thousands of cases per year.

Putting them in their place only works with a few companies. If you are dealing with an IPC member then you will meet a level of intransigence that is similar to that of the North Korean government.

Defending a court case is not as easy as you suggest. It takes a lot of time, research. (New) pre-action protocol has to be followed, defence statements generated, evidence and rebuttal evidence produced, making sure you insist on a verbal not paper hearing, and everything has to be submitted in the right order and on time.
Then you play judge bingo. Some will be on your side and some won't.


Parking Eye are The most litigious parking company in the country and send out about 30 000 court papers per year.
This is why it is much better to get a landowner cancellation as in this case by scot, or get it killed off at PoPLA if the company is a BPA member, again as in scot's case.

If it's an IPC member, your appeal WILL be rejected and then you could be dealing with a company of solicitors renowned for churning out court papers by the cartload who don't care what you say. They get paid win or lose and WILL take things all the way to court.

Yes you are right that many people ignore or don't respond vigorously enough and then end up paying or losing in court. You are right to "put them in their place immediately" but unfortunately it doesn't always work.

The Government is complicit in this whole unregulated affair because the DVLA rakes in millions of pounds every year by selling keeper details to parking companies.
Before the law changed in 2012, parking court cases numbered less than one thousand per year. Now they number in the hundreds of thousands.

Everyone who gets an unfair private parking charge should research it and fight it, and complain to their MP.
I've done it several times and I found it easy tbh.
But maybe that's just me.
One of them was Parking Eye and they rolled over easily.
Fruitcake's Avatar
Fruitcake
Senior Member
Fruitcake is offline
Somerset Riviera
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,096
Fruitcake is male  Fruitcake has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
20-10-2017, 09:55 PM
18

Re: Aldı car park fine

Originally Posted by fender ->
I've done it several times and I found it easy tbh.
But maybe that's just me.
One of them was Parking Eye and they rolled over easily.
It's like everything I suspect. There are things I find easy that others find hard, and vice versa. Most people have never had to defend themselves in SC Court and the ones I have dealt with all said it has been stressful and time consuming, although a litigant in person generally gets some leeway allowed.

I'm glad to hear of your success. We need more people like you.
Realist
Chatterbox
Realist is offline
UK
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 9,184
Realist is male  Realist has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
21-10-2017, 11:57 AM
19

Re: Aldı car park fine

Bottom line with these private parking areas is that they are not exempt from the law of the land and thus CAN NOT impose stupid fines on people.

These private firms are cropping up all over the country. Often shopping centres sell out to them which is a real shame.

Here is the bottom line.

Even if YOU DID park on the site longer than you were permitted to this DOES NOT entitle them to charge anything they like as a fine. Be very clear on that.

The situation is absolutely no different to me, driving my car to your house and plonking it on your drive. It would create an inconvenience to you and ultimately you would be able to get me to remove my car or have it removed.

Either way what you WOULD NOT be able to do is convince anyone that I had caused you say £100 of damages. This is where the private parking firms are being fraudulent. It matters not one jot what their signs say or how much they charge you for a fine. THEY HAVE to prove that they incurred damages to that level of cost as a result of you parking there and that is something that they will never succeed in doing.

No parking firm suffers £100 of damages loss when you over park especially if it is a free car park. Thus all one needs to do is write back to them and say you are very happy to go to court, and that you will contest the amount claimed in damages.

They most likely won't even turn up at court because no court will support their fines of £100 or so. The LAW states they can only claim fair damages.
So go defend yourself, tell the truth, and argue levels of damages.
Fruitcake's Avatar
Fruitcake
Senior Member
Fruitcake is offline
Somerset Riviera
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 4,096
Fruitcake is male  Fruitcake has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
21-10-2017, 05:40 PM
20

Re: Aldı car park fine

I am sorry Realist but since Mr Beavis lost in the Supreme Court, the parking companies unfortunately no longer have to prove a loss. Your assumption is two years out of date.

Your analogy about somebody parking on your drive is also not correct. This is covered by the law of trespass. However, unless damage has been caused by the trespasser, only a nominal amount can be awarded to the landowner, normally in the order of £1, making it unviable as a deterrent.
The same applies in any other type of private car park, whether it be a retail car park, a sop, or a pub.

However, where a private parking company is involved, they claim a contract has been made with the driver and will claim that a breach of alleged contract has occurred if these Ts and Cs have not been complied with. If the driver is not identified then unfortunately the UK Government allows the registered keeper o be liable for the parking charge in England and Wales.

More and more parking companies are using court, and cases are running into tens of thousands per year.
Don't bak on the parking company not turning up, in the majority of cases they do, and certainly will if all you do is send them a letter of complaint.
A robust defence following all the pre-action and action protocols is required.

This is a multi-million pound business and many companies have their own solicitors, and many others use companies that specialise in private parking court cases.
 
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

Thread Tools


© Copyright 2009, Over50sForum   Contact Us | Over 50s Forum! | Archive | Privacy Statement | Terms of Use | Top

Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.