29-04-2018, 04:51 PM
41
Re: The Alfie Evans case has proven we have to change the law in favour of parents
There are many different opinions among medics as to what treatment to administer for the best outcome and as to the prognosis of a particular condition. There are different approaches in different countries. In the UK there is a very prescriptive approach and people have to go abroad to try more experimental treatments.My point was that if there are qualified medics outside the NHS that the parents wanted to use then they should have had the right to move their child to another facility. If it's in Rome then I see no reason why there was such a kerfuffle about it when they are also qualified medics. I can understand the hospital objecting to the parents removing the child and putting him in the hands of some charlatan healer, but if they wanted to move him to another hospital then they should have the right to do so if that hospital promises them they will provide longer term care. Who are medics to decide the child should die? Who are we to make that decision?
I support right to die but if you don't apply it to the elderly who are greatly suffering then you should not force it on a baby when the parents have been given different options. Millions of people are suffering and in pain as I type, but nobody would condone killing them.
I find it so hypocritical that such decisions are made about one individual and denied to another. Even to the point of criminalising those who want to take them to dignitas. It's all part of the same ethical debate IMO.
29-04-2018, 05:04 PM
43
Re: The Alfie Evans case has proven we have to change the law in favour of parents
Annie, I'd have to re-read that report that Tara posted ... but I think I can recall that a major concern was that Alfie would not survive the transportation to Italy?Mixing this case in with an elderly person's right to die seems to me to be quite different situations.
29-04-2018, 05:09 PM
44
Re: The Alfie Evans case has proven we have to change the law in favour of parents
Originally Posted by Morticia
->
I agree that adults should have the right.Interestingly, some suggest that should voluntary euthanasia ever be introduced it lies in the hands of medical professionals to administer it. Not the individual themselves. You can't avoid the 'input' of professionals to keep it legal unless you wish to implicate a well-meaning relative or risk having them prosecuted.
Originally Posted by Morticia
->
I see that as different. It was a disagreement over the treatment the NHS offered versus what the parents wanted their child to receive. There was hope for this child .. and in that case I don't think the parents should have been arrested. They wanted to do the best for their child .. and if the best meant refusing NHS treatment in favour of a procedure available in Europe I'm firmly on their side.
The parents wanted proton beam therapy because it offered them hope that he would not be left a vegetable. Conventional therapy damages the brain in a way that proton beam (which is targeted) does not.
The child is doing well so the medics here are not always right. There are doctors here who still deny the parents did the right thing but the child's health contradicts this view.
29-04-2018, 05:10 PM
45
Re: The Alfie Evans case has proven we have to change the law in favour of parents
Originally Posted by AnnieS
->
I support right to die but if you don't apply it to the elderly who are greatly suffering then you should not force it on a baby when the parents have been given different options. Millions of people are suffering and in pain as I type, but nobody would condone killing them. Do you not agree that inevitably at some indeterminate point Alfie's limbo and his parent's suffering had to end ?
The point was determined when the Courts stepped in.
Whilst it might appear brutal or clinical it was with the intention of what was best for Alfie.
29-04-2018, 05:12 PM
46
Re: The Alfie Evans case has proven we have to change the law in favour of parents
Originally Posted by Morticia
->
Annie, I'd have to re-read that report that Tara posted ... but I think I can recall that a major concern was that Alfie would not survive the transportation to Italy?Mixing this case in with an elderly person's right to die seems to me to be quite different situations.
I see this as a bigger discussion about the power medics should have over our lives when we are too vulnerable to walk out. The way vulnerable people are treated is still appalling. Did you know what people with dementia can be given ECT to pacify them? You don't have to obtain consent if someone is deemed to have lost capacity.
29-04-2018, 05:18 PM
47
Re: The Alfie Evans case has proven we have to change the law in favour of parents
Originally Posted by Morticia
->
It's one of those subjects that bring out strong feelings or beliefs on either side ... hence your emotive last sentence about 'killing', rather than a 'kindness'.Do you not agree that inevitably at some indeterminate point Alfie's limbo and his parent's suffering had to end ?
The point was determined when the Courts stepped in.
Whilst it might appear brutal or clinical it was with the intention of what was best for Alfie.
Most people don't think about it because the system does not become apparent until you end up lost in it when something awful happens. People do not plan for such catastrophes.
29-04-2018, 05:19 PM
48
Re: The Alfie Evans case has proven we have to change the law in favour of parents
Originally Posted by Morticia
->
Annie, I'd have to re-read that report that Tara posted ... but I think I can recall that a major concern was that Alfie would not survive the transportation to Italy?Mixing this case in with an elderly person's right to die seems to me to be quite different situations.
29-04-2018, 05:23 PM
49
Re: The Alfie Evans case has proven we have to change the law in favour of parents
There was never any question of Aysha being brain dead.At the time proton beam therapy for cancer was in its experimental stages and the multi millions of pounds necessary for it to be available here on the NHS wasn't available.
I'm not sure that it is now, isn't it private?
https://www.ft.com/content/7a15b9e2-...0-52972418fec4
29-04-2018, 05:24 PM
50
Re: The Alfie Evans case has proven we have to change the law in favour of parents
Originally Posted by AnnieS
->
The doctors in Ashya's case refused to grant funding to transfer him to a facility in Europe but also did not allow him to be moved because he was reliant on medical equipment etc. It was a similar situation because it was considered too detrimental to move him. At least that's what I've read as the reason for the manhunt etc. The parents wanted proton beam therapy because it offered them hope that he would not be left a vegetable. Conventional therapy damages the brain in a way that proton beam (which is targeted) does not.
The child is doing well so the medics here are not always right. There are doctors here who still deny the parents did the right thing but the child's health contradicts this view.
Aysa had a chance that proton beam therapy offered a better hope than the NHS offered and his parents opted for what they believed was a better option. I believe they were entitled to do so.
I don't see how in Alfie's case that going to Italy offered anything above what could be offered in the UK regarding treatment, or cure .... except a prolonging of life on machines in a foreign country where his family or those who wanted to be beside him might one day find it impractical or unaffordable to do so.
|
|
