Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Yes, if all the documentaries are to be believed, in 1945 the Dutch people couldn't be more pleased and grateful when our tanks rolled through their country and expelled the Germans.

Now, they seem to be much happier with the Germans, even to the point of handing over their sovereignty to them.

People have short memories, sadly.

Don't get me wrong, though. I like Germany and find the German people very nice whenever we go on holiday there. It is the German politicians and their poodles in Brussels who are causing all the problems.

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

True as this is, I still think we should live in the here and now. As you may know, over the ages, the Dutch have had more clashes with the British than with the Germans. It wouldn't be very fruitful to keep referring to those endless sea- battles. Nor is it fruitful to keep reminding the present generation Germans of the atrocities, their ancestors committed. Don't get me wrong: being brought up by a traumatized, half Jewish father who saw the greater half of his family deported and then managed to cross the front and join the Canadian army, I think do know what happened.... then.
There's no question of handing over sovereignty. We're living in a "global village" now. Absolute sovereignty is an illusion; always has been. Talking about the past: one moment the Dutch and the British were fighting over fishing rights or something in that order, the next moment a Dutchman was on the English throne after helping the protestant majority defeating the Jacobines. But hat's history. As should WW III be by now.

As I said: we are living in a Global Village now, whether we like it or not. I too, would like more sovereignty for the (Hol)low lands by the sea. A wise man once said: "if you can't fight them, join them". As an united Europe, we can form a firm economic fist against the USA and the Chinese. A fist, no European country could make by itself. However big its empire has been in the past...

Having said this: If a country wants to exit the EU: who am I to object? Democracy should always have priority. All I ment to do with my original post, was to indicate there's "more ways to skin a cat" as they say on your side of the salty pond..

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

You make some very good points Racker and progress is progress. We will never return to the friendly quaint little island that we were in the past. Standing against change is like swimming against the current. Apparently, money is the driver these days and the only way to provide wealth in the future and help our young people with better education and opportunities is to work together with other European countries.

But if all other European countries want the same things why do we need to be governed from Brussels, wouldn't a handshake suffice, and all the officials who control the trade in Europe sit down with each other and remove the boundaries that prevent the free movement of goods without having to sell our souls to do it.

And furthermore, of the twenty seven countries that make up the EU it could be said that there are only half a dozen who have the capability, wealth and business acumen to provide support to less well off countries, so why do these smaller countries have the same clout in the EU as say Britain?

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Do you mean the quaint funny little island that beat up half the World and stole their resources, raw materials etc?

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

You have a very jaundiced eye Purwell.
Are you referring to the countries who we introduced to a civilised world, Built Railways, gave them electricity, clean running water and communications. Some of which are still in evidence today. They wouldn't have known they had resources and raw materials had we not shown them the value of them. There is no such thing as a 'Free Lunch' Purwell, it's only right that we also benefitted. We don't work for nowt!

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Exactly! Besides: how far a past are we referring to? Would that -in your case- be the times of "the Great Empire where the sun never set", or the past of a green and White- cliffed island, before the Saxons and the Vikings came charging in?

Stepping out totally, w/o freedom of movement, would seriously hamper the prospects of British youth, I'm afraid. Those young people deserve better!

It goes without saying, that the way the EU is "governed" at the moment, is in desperate need of change. Britain *in* the EU would have great influence in that process. Whereas Britain *out of* the EU......

IMHO the growth of the EU has been too fast. Politicians were focussend on getting EU members in for the wrong reasons. I think, it was a great mistake giving the ex- soviet satellites and Mediterranean states the same status as the original members.

The EU is in need of an overhaul; I think, EU members should work on that. Not by getting out, but by "changing the system from within".

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

So the Netherlands is not subject to any EU laws, then?

Most other countries are not; Canada, for example; and neither shall we be when we have left the EU.

We could do exactly the same if we were still in the EEC. Unfortunately, the dictators in Brussels are interested in complete control rather than just economics and trade.

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Hi

My view, for what it is worth.

WW2 is long gone, Germany is not an enemy, neither is Italy or Japan.

The UK did not win WW2 on it's own, Russia destroyed the bulk of the German Army in Europe.

De Gaulle is long gone.

The EU did not force us to sell off our utilities, steel making or anything else.

We did that all on our own.

The EU did not force us to stop building Power Stations and import expensive electricity from France.

We were one of the biggest contributors to the EU, we did not use that position to our benefit, others did.

The EU did not force us to send Child Benefits payments to children not living in the UK, that was us again.

The EU did not prevent us registering EU migrants and doing Criminal History checks.

The EU did not prevent us having a delay from Eastern European Migrants here when they joined.

Other EU Countries did.

Free Movement?

We have more Non EU Immigrants coming here than we have EU Immigrants.

The EU did not make us do that, we did it all on our own.

We have been seriously let down by our Politicians for decades.

I have no wish at all to remain in the EU in it's current state.

Our Politicians have botched Brexit, they did not prepare and it is the UK who is going begging for a 2 year Transition, for which we are going to get badly stung.

There will be nowhere to hide for our Politicians when we leave

Hopefully we will be able to get of our Political Elite and put into power those who are more concerned with people's lives than their own advancement.

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

But whom?

Limp Dems? Loonies? Greenies?

The only party I can think of who genuinely has the good of the country at heart is UKIP but, of course, that suggestion will only meet with derision because they are so disorganised now.

Perhaps they will get their act together, but even then I'm afraid that most people would be too frightened to try something different.

Re: Why not keep it all in your own hands?

Did the average working man or woman get much from this Empire? Did they buggery!