Re: Net Closing In For Illegal TV/Content Downloading

Have used Pirate Bay for years.

The Viruses you get are a pain in the neck but are easy to remove.

Will download GoT tonight.

Re: Net Closing In For Illegal TV/Content Downloading

The problem for authorities is that while all ISPs are required to save meta data (eg in Australia) they are not required to record actual traffic.

VPN data is encrypted as stated and while one might employ the services of a US VPN provider paid for by crypto currency the actual VPN site used could be in any of a couple of dozen countries and changed on a random basis. Many of these countries have laws which, like their banking system, make it illegal to disclose information which could lead to the ID of people using their services.

The username/password combination self certify so there is no need to keep records at every site (in a similar but far more sophisticated way that your Visacard number and expiry date certify each other). So while the American owner may tell authorities that MalcolmY has a subscription they probably have no idea where MalcolmY lives (they don't ask) and are very unlikely to know what services (s)he is using in Switzerland, Japan or Rumania.

The only reason to use VPN services in the USA, UK or Australia is to overcome geo blocking. Otherwise you use services in countries where your identity is protected by law.

Realist's little brown hen may think the sky is falling in but it isn't.

Re: Net Closing In For Illegal TV/Content Downloading

Whichever way it's put, downloading stuff that should be paid for but isn't is illegal. However, I think it's uncertain that the law will catch up with those doing it. If it does, just present all the above arguments for downloading to the judge and hope that (s)he agrees.

Re: Net Closing In For Illegal TV/Content Downloading

Truthfully I wonder if the law will catch up with this. We are talking about a global network which distributes all kinds of information; and for the law to catch up, countries will have to start getting a unanimous voice in how to handle it.
Either way, current copyright, is not (in my opinion) something which really works well in our current global society. We have access to so much information and entertainment, that a shift in value is taking place. I mean, we get new shows and movies almost every day, so why would this one movie or show be that valuable to pay the same we did back 20 years ago? Also note that basically every website has copyright at the bottom, which legally can be seen as that anything on the website may not be copied and shared with others... (including this forum)
That is absolutely ludicrous though, nobody will stand for it. Basically I believe that this whole copyright issue should be built up again from the ground up.

Anyway, I believe that is a very philosophical conversation to have, but this idea about having the authorities knocking on your door and not having any influence on what they can or cannot see is simply a fear.

Ask yourself why so many hackers cannot be found, and why it took so long to take out a public website like thepiratebay. Trust me when I say that as an individual or family, it is very easy to "get lost" in all the data that is being transferred if you set everything up right. Setting up systems like VPN will already put you way ahead of these organizations that claim they can find you and imprison you. It's merely a scare tactic.

However, those systems cannot protect you from whatever you share in information by yourself. As you can see with the hacker group Anonymous, you can stay safe behind a mask, but if you don't also mask your voice (or whatever you say with it) then your identity becomes clear.

It's the reason we use nicknames, but in the end leaving your address somewhere or sharing something on Facebook will rip the mask away.
That.
That is the main reason why hackers get uncovered, but the real ones... no one knows. (otherwise anonymous would not still be active today)

Re: Net Closing In For Illegal TV/Content Downloading

Does this mean I'll get arrested if I download knitting patterns?

Re: Net Closing In For Illegal TV/Content Downloading

Some naïve views still persist I see.

In the news this week the primary "dark web" sites, AlphaBay and Hansa were seized and shut down following a "landmark" international law enforcement investigation.

The sites had been associated with the trade in illicit items such as drugs, weapons, malware and stolen data.

The sites were covertly monitored for a month before being deactivated.

The agency said it believed the bust would lead to hundreds of new investigations in Europe.

Now this is a slightly different situation to the blatant illegal downloading of copyright content but serves to show the extent to which authorities, across the world, will come together to tackle such crime.

Onto VPNs.

There is still a plethora of naïve views surrounding the use of VPN services, the most naïve thinking that using one makes them anonymous and untraceable. Every ISP and every VPN provider knows who YOU are because you have an account set up with them, and there is a "paper trail" of money between you and the service provider.

Every VPN provider markets itself as being one that does not keep logs of your browsing/internet activity but in the small print of the Ts&Cs you can read clauses which don't add up in that respect.

For example the US provider IPVanish states this regarding use of copyright material:

"IPVanish respects the intellectual property rights of others and expects that you do the same. It is our policy to terminate in appropriate circumstances the accounts of subscribers who infringe the copyrights of others. You may not upload, download, post, publish, transmit, reproduce, or distribute in any way, files, material, information, software or other material obtained through the System that is protected by copyright or other proprietary right or derivative works with respect thereto, without obtaining permission of the copyright owner or other right holder."

This is a clear warning that you should not download copyright material and that they may terminate your account if they do. They elephant in the room here is . . .

How can they possibly know if you are downloading say an illegal box set of Game Of Thrones in the first place? Didn't they say they didn't keep logs of your activity???

Another of the top VPN providers is GoldenFrog, again a provider clearly stating that there are no logs kept. On the issue of criminal activity it states:

"Golden Frog cooperates fully with law enforcement agencies, yet there must still be a subpoena before Golden Frog provides a member's identifying information - minimal information reasonably calculated to identify and no more. In a criminal investigation Golden Frog is required by the Law to not divulge the fact of the investigation to the member"

So here it is clear that the authorities could conduct an investigation into your activities without your knowledge and one has to ask, how could they possibly do that if all your traffic was encrypted and there were no logs ?


There are scales and magnitudes here of course. The authorities in the main will be targeting high criminal activity, drugs, weapons, hacking, paedophilia and so on. The news this week demonstrates admirably how they are covertly monitoring such activity and then closing down sites and sparking off 1000s of subsequent investigations.

However, the $billions of revenue lost as a result of pirated film/tv content is enough of a concern for the authorities to similarly covertly monitor such activity and force ISPs and VPN providers to allow access to their systems to conduct investigations.

What VPN services generally do is funnel a lot of illegal activity through one place which effectively separates it from the rest of the internet noise. Indeed, you'd have to be naïve not to believe that the CIA and similar organisations are not actually behind these services from the outset.

In the end most domestic users rely on the somewhat shaky hope that the authorities aren't really interested in their illegal downloading activities and will go after bigger fish.

That somehow, the £1000s that you are depriving companies of by illegally downloading copyright content just won't be checked, monitored, investigated. . . . . .

Hmmmm does that really sound like the modern day word? A world where banks will chase you for a £20 admin charge, where PPI companies and injury lawyer companies will make efforts to recover monies?

Nope. The nationwide participation of illegal downloading is big enough money to set lawyers into action. It is therefore only a matter of time before someone just sets lawyer firms off the leash to start sending threatening letters saying "pay £1000 or else appear in court" and that will have most timid people running for cover.

Re: Net Closing In For Illegal TV/Content Downloading

Poor Realist living in a world of darkness where the boogie man could strike him down at any moment, a place where reality dare not exist.

Unless you are a terrorist or major criminal the CIA and NSA are not in the slightest bit interested, certainly not in people downloading a video or Game of Thrones - it is merely a civil offence. If you are chased it will be by the copyright owners themselves and their record so far is hardly a glorious success.

The Dallas Buyers Club (DBC) case in Australia is a (THE) case in point; it cost the copyright owners a fortune over many years, got to the High Court but now it has been abandoned.

Australia has had laws protecting US Intellectual Property Rights for years as part of our Free Trade Agreement with the US.

DBC LLC had sought the contact details from various ISPs of Australians who pirated the film - these people didn't use a VPN but just downloaded it from their home PC with no protection at all.

But the Federal Court decided letters the firm was intending to send to those pirates — a process known as speculative invoicing, where people receive demands for large payments with the threat of being sued — constituted an overreach.

What were those letters?

The letters would have included demands for:

1. The cost of the purchase of a single copy of the film, for each copy downloaded.
2. A "licence fee" for each person found to have also uploaded the film.
3. Extra damages depending on how many copies of other copyrighted works had been downloaded by each infringer.
4. Court costs for expenses in retrieving each downloader's name.

Graham Phillips, partner at Thomson Geer Lawyers, who acted on behalf of iiNet and other internet service providers, said it was likely the company did a cost-benefit analysis and worked out the money was not there if speculative invoicing was not an option.

The case was abandoned. - No CIA, no NSA just the copyright holders, they tried once, failed and walked away.

Ignore those talking out of their arse. This is the reality of illegal downloading.

Re: Net Closing In For Illegal TV/Content Downloading

Whether thought a right thing to do or not, I'd say the chances of an authority knocking at the door are pretty small. Lots of laws are optional in practice afterall.

It's more a question of whether people reckon downloading films is a morally right thing to do or not. I think most who do it would realise it is an illegal act but just don't agree with the law and do it anyway. Others could agree that downloading films is breaking a law but the word 'FREE' is a mighty powerful one that overrides any feeling of conscience they have about it.

Me? I just switch on the TV and watch scheduled films and buy the occasional Blu-ray disc. Always plenty to watch without downloading anything.

Re: Net Closing In For Illegal TV/Content Downloading

Hey Tessa, don't worry these patterns won't be tracked although officially they will fall under the same copyright rules. In general it is a nice thing though to credit the one who made them, letting them know they are doing a good job.

Either way, back to VPN's.

I totally agree with Realist that we are not talking about anonymity when using VPN's, but not for the same reasons mentioned. Also, going into anonymity will make this an even larger story than it already is. BUT, it's not impossible.
When combining TOR networks with a proper VPN network (using no logging, based outside the fourteen eyes countries, based inside a country with strict privacy laws and finally using so-called core servers which are the main nodes to connect with) AND using encrypted files for mail, storage and sharing information with others. THEN you can i n fact become anonymous on the internet.

However, we're talking only about virtual private networks here. The point with these networks is that they do make you safer and keep your data more private, but again only IF you choose the right provider.

Indeed, US based VPN providers are the scum of the earth, but not always intentionally. This has more to do with the regulations the US is changing surrounding privacy and since the data is being stored or sent through US based companies, they have to follow suit.

Yahoo also had to give in to this, they didn't even put up a fight! “Yahoo is a law abiding company, and complies with the laws of the United States,” the company said "

Annoyingly enough this is about e-mail and we are already talking several steps further down the line of sharing information on the internet.
So while a VPN cannot protect you from everything, it can protect you much more than when you are simply using the internet unprotected and letting any company like Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, Apple and every single intelligence agency on the planet access your shared information (while knowing whom it came from). Note that I'm talking about data mining here.

Now a good VPN will not log any kind of activity which you have through their network. They also show this by going into court saying they are not able to disclose any informaton: because they don't have it. Next to that you can buy good VPN's via Bitcoin, which ensures that a paper trail is useless.

These kinds of VPN's are rare, but should be supported. A full list of this (182 vpn providers) can be found here:
https://thatoneprivacysite.net/vpn-comparison-chart/

Here's the thing. These companies that want their money and are "fighting for the public good" are trying to find a way to round up all the individuals in an easy way. The easiest way is by going as close to the source as possible, which are the ISP's. So even when you use a bad VPN, this source will become useless. Which means more work for them and more freedom for us.

In any case you should not think that just ignoring it will make the situation better. A lot of greater powers out there are trying to control the internet and copyright is just one thing they disguise it with.

Net neutrality is currently also a big issue, whereas they are trying to put a vote through in the US that they can influence the ISP's on which services should have more priority.

If they succeed, suddenly certain websites will be available very easily (like CNN), while others will become so badly accessible due to speed that you might as well stop hosting the website. (this was posted 4 days ago: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...ity/488042001/)

Of course even this is not the end of a free internet. Instead services will be moved to other countries and so, and so on.

If you want to know more about the privacy regulations and influences on the internet you can go here:
https://www.privacyinternational.org/

This is a very interesting organization which has been around since 1990. Please take special note of the terms "five eyes" and "fourteen eyes" described by them and if you aren't interested in a VPN by then, I have given my best shot.

Plus I'm not sure if calling people naive is the most reasonable thing to do about this subject. After all, we are talking about an ongoing battle and there are only a few people out there who actually know the full scope of the story. I don't count myself as one of them, neither should you see yourself as an authority.

Finally, VPN's are not only being used by criminals... They are used by journalists in unstable areas, they are used by those who don't want people snooping around in their private affairs and for many more reasons.
I use one because I'd rather have a lock on my door, than keep it wide open for anyone to enter. And by researching a good VPN, you have a good chance that the lock can only be picked or broken open, letting you know that you have been compromised.