Re: Is the European Union Worth It?

I'm not sure what part of this you don't understand.

Let's forget the EU as a political and trading organisation for a minute and compare its suggested peace-keeping role with that of NATO.

The EU.
Here we have an alliance of European states with their armed forces which, presumably, would eventually be combined into a single 'EU Army'.

NATO.
This is a collection of European states, along with the US and Canada, whose armed forces are allied inasmuch as if any one member state should be attacked (but not necessarily by Russia) it would be regarded as an attack on all of the member states of NATO.

I believe that the most important factor is that the NATO alliance is far more powerful than the EU in respect of military strength, obviously because of the inclusion of the US.

The EU, it is claimed, is beneficial on the grounds that if its member nations are happily trading with each other - and allowing free movement between themselves (although this is rather in doubt now!) - there would be less likelihood of any of them starting a war with any other.

But would this happy arrangement within the EU be of much help in the case of an attack from outside? Would the EU as a peacekeeping organisation be as able to defend itself from an attacker than is NATO?

In answer to the question you originally asked, my answer is NATO. (Prosperity, of course, is another matter, and I'm not sure that some EU countries - Greece for example - would see the EU as inducing prosperity!)

It is certainly more able to maintain peace, and has done since the Second World War. You might cite the Yugoslav war and say that NATO didn't help there. No, because that was, in effect, a civil war within one nation which, in addition, was at that time not a member of NATO.

It is my opinion that NATO is still a valid organisation and an effective means of maintaining peace between its member states as much as it was in protecting against the perceived threat of the USSR, and is far more effective in that respect than the EU.

Re: Is the European Union Worth It?

Thanks for your efforts - unfortunately I can't be asked to read them after such a patronising intro!

Re: Is the European Union Worth It?

Are you sure about this? I read recently that France and Germany were among the biggest contributors to the EU.

This graph seems to show that France and Germany pay more than they receive only nine EU members appear to do this so it appears your statement is just not true.

Re: Is the European Union Worth It?

Hi

I prefaced my statement very carefully Bruce, it related to Security , not to overall EU Contributions.

Re: Is the European Union Worth It?

You said "Security and common purpose" I assumed the second part referred to all other things.

Re: Is the European Union Worth It?

Hi

Apologies if I did not make myself clear.

Thank you for posting that graph.

It makes things very clear.

It completely demolishes Flickers posts about how much the UK depends on EU Contributions, particularly those of France.

The game is given away by the graph, look at the Xs above the green, those who contribute and get far less back than they put in.

Germany, followed by the UK, then the Netherlands a nd Sweden.

Germany can afford to, it has a an annual surplus, the UK has an annual deficit, we are borrowing the money to pay in.

This is a nonsense.

That money is far better spent on our own.

Re: Is the European Union Worth It?

I think that video clearly demonstrates that the intention of the EU was to become one big country, made up of states that were once European countries. Around the time of the referendum we were being told that they weren't going to take over our armed forces, but some would be used for security. Now we have worked out that was a lie, I wonder who will be in charge of the European Army, when they set it up?
You cannot create a big country, that is fair to all, because each country will be wanting to look after their own people... no matter how united we are. The plan to become one country has been the intention from the beginning, but they have done it slowly and slyly, so none of us noticed any major changes. That suggests to me that the people running the EU cannot be trusted.

Peace will not continue in Europe, but I don't think it will be WW3 , it will be created by terrorists from the Middle East. Those of us who are prepared to give way to fear and change our lifestyles ( by not gathering in large groups for social activities or travel) will be handing over our countries to these terrorist... who are growing all the time.

Don't forget, global warming may make Europe one of the best continents of the world, for life to survive, because we are still likely to have water and some fertile ground to grow food.
I am not fooled by the idea that the EU want to protect us , because what they are really seeking is power..... and that is what causes all wars!

Re: Is the European Union Worth It?

I have never discussed how the UK depends on EU contributions other than to say many projects including Birmingham renovation were made possible by EU money; However that is a very long way off from "the UK depends on them".

I also note that your graph does not include the money the UK makes in t he financial/service sector made possible by n=being in the EU, nor does it take account of the tens of thousands of jobs from natives and immigrants created on the back of EU membership...all taxes gratefully received by the Treasury. That is why the UK economy has grown.

Careless reading dear boy.

Re: Is the European Union Worth It?

Hi

It is not my graph, it is a graph produced by the EU itself.

Re: Is the European Union Worth It?

That's OK. You wouldn't have understood them anyway.