Re: UK Can Stand Alone

I haven't misunderstood. I know the risks the country runs, I just don't believe they would cut off their nose to spite their face. They purchased these companies for more reasons than us being in Europe, reasons like workforce skills, design skills etc.

In addition the sheer logistics of closing a production line and establishing it abroad must make it doubtful, especially if remaining here is made financially attractive to them when we are no longer subject to European regulation.

Re: UK Can Stand Alone

Hi

If we leave, the Trade Agreements cease.

We could apply to join the EEA, like Norway.

There are two problems with this.

Membership of the EEA is only available if we allow free movement of EU workers.

Membership is also dependant upon us keeping existing and adopting new, EU Legislation relating to goods and trade.

In simple terms, still a problem with no control over EU Migrants and no competitive advantage as we still have to obey EU Legislation about manufacturing, so no competitive advantage in trade with the EU.

We could apply to get the same arrangements as Switzerland.

A bit better, but still many of the same problems.

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/cou...s/switzerland/

The major issue being free movement of persons and the limited sector agreements.

There is no guarantee we get either, and I remain to be convinced that our present bunch of Politicians are capable of the hard negotiations required to get any deal which is to our benefit.

When we leave we immediately become a competitor, the EU will do what is best for them, not for us.

We could solve many of the issues we have with the EU ourselves if we only had the Political Will to do so.

This would mean.

1. Getting rid of the 600,000 illegais we have living here who contribute nothing to taxation and get free medical care, putting a strain on NHS Resources we do not need.

I think that it is criminal that neither of the current mainstream parties have done nothing about this.

2. Stopping Immigration from outside the EU, particularly from our ex Empire.

Again this is something we could do now, without any control from the EU.

3.Change our stupid Benefits System so you get nothing until you have paid in enough to get the Benefits.this is what differentiates us from the the majority of EU Countries and makes us a magnet.

It really riles me to see our local unemployed swanning around during the day when there are jobs available which they are not prepared to take which are then filled by EU Migrants.

4. Close our Borders, we need far more Border Control, all illegals detained at the Ports and shoved in Detention with the bare minimum.

5. Rewrite our Human Rights Act, the bare minimum as prescribed by International Law, as done by other EU Countries.

This a crisis of our own making, very easy to blame the EU for years if incompetent self serving Politicians here in the UK.

We still need to leave, the thought of Turkey being admitted with hordes of yet more immigrants appals me.

it would have been much better if instead of rushing things, we had been planning for years, made all the alterations in our favour and then if Merkel had allowed Turkey in, just point blank refused to take any Turkish.

The EU would then have been forced to kick us out.

A far better Scenario than having Cameron negotiating for peanuts.

Re: UK Can Stand Alone

The truth is that the benefits of in or out are evenly balanced and I for one think we would gain as much as we lose. I voted to stay out in the first referendum and feel much the same way today.

Yes, we have benefited to some extent from being in Europe but the cost in terms of money, loss of sovereignty and the fact that many of the decisions that affect us are being made in Europe by unelected politicians is not worth paying any longer. We would be far better off on our own, small is beautiful.

There are far too many decision makers in Europe were only interested in furthering Europe's interests and certainly won't look out for the UK. It's like in the business world, companies grow, merge and swallow other companies up until they become too big to function properly. They lose momentum, profits start to fall, shareholders complain and service starts to fall off and because the CEO is too far from the shop floor it takes a while for them to notice. It takes these supertankers of companies too long to change direction unlike a smaller unit which is fleet of foot and able to make the necessary changes in direction quickly and move on.

In my opinion Europe is a bit like that and we would be better off as a smaller unit on our own trading, as we used to globally. It will take time and some sacrifice no doubt but it's my opinion that it be well worth it in the end.

Re: UK Can Stand Alone

I agree with all of this, but I'm afraid that our only real option now is to leave the EU and, assuming we do, we should certainly not take the half-way option of the EEA.

What would happen when we leave the EU is heavily dependant on our government who, as you have said, are sadly lacking I'm afraid. It annoys me that, had we been fortunate to have strong leaders as we did in the 1980s, things would have been very different and there would certainly not be any of this embarrassing 'begging bowl diplomacy' that Cameron has been engaging in.

The thing that worries me most, again thanks to our weak government, is that when we vote to leave the EU it is very likely to decide not to accept our decision and compel us to conduct another referendum, just like they did with Ireland. I just wonder, assuming we'd vote to leave again, how many more referenda we would be obliged to conduct again until 'we get it right'!

Re: UK Can Stand Alone

Hi

The EU is imploding before our eyes.

Austria and the others are rebelling.

It is the end of Merkel and Hollande.

I think that it is stupid that the UK should be the first over the top and charging the machine gun.

Pure madness to potentially sacrifice our economy in the name of heroic stupidity.

We are a modern day equivalent of the Charge of the Light Brigade.

Heroic, but stupid.

Delay the Referendum, join forces with Austria, Denmark, The Netherlands and the others.

The objective of the exercise is to win the war against the stupid, irrational EU, not to sacrifice ourselves in doing so.

it is a war, I have no illusions about that at all.

Unfortunately we do not have clever Generals on our side.

We have idiots with the same mentality as the first World War Generals as our leaders.

Over the top lads, whilst they stay miles back at no risk to themselves.

You win wars by being cuter and more intelligent and better prepared than the opposition.

We are none of these, our Politicians are idiots.

I want to see the end of the EU, it is a total nonsense, a dangerous , expensive nonsense.

I want a simple Free Trade Area, no more unelected EU Commissioners telling us what to do, no more ECHR overruling us.

What I do not want, either for myself or my children is to be Cannon Fodder.

Our Politicians are incompetent idiots, if Cameron and Corbyn are the best we can up with, then God help us.

We deserve better, we deserve Politicians who put us first, the average British Worker, who does not deserve to be sacrificed for the benefit of money grabbing, self serving Politicians of either Party , who are only interested in their own interests, not ours.

Re: UK Can Stand Alone

i should not worry too much about Bristol City.

The South West of England's Aerospace is th largest in Europe.
Bristol Aerospace has an order with Iran for £17.4 billion

Total orders from Uk manufacturers for Commercial Aircraft is £125 - £155 billion.

These orders are increasing annually, as well.

Can't be bad!!

Re: UK Can Stand Alone

I agree That's the spirit! You are quite right as well

Re: UK Can Stand Alone

Hi

Apologies if I have got it wrong.

My understanding is that it is Airbus who has the Iranian order.

Airbus is not a British Company, we sold our share some years ago and the company is now a subsidiary of French and German Companies.

Airbus has already started costing a move from Bristol and Chester.

This may be a normal commercial review and nothing to do with the referendum.

As for the other figures you quoted, it is also my understanding that they refer to the total value of aircraft and components, not solely the components manufactured here in the UK.

An example would be MBD , based in Gloucester, which produces landing gear for most of the world’s large commercial airliners.

MBD is owned by the French, it is not a UK Company.

How do I know this?

Well, living locally is a person who owns a specialist engineering company, based in the West Midlands, which supplies components to the Aerospace Industry and who is ranting about the "Bloody French" as he puts it and what they are up to.

I hope that you are right and I am wrong.

I am still voting for out by the way, just despairing of our idiot Politicians who I do not believe have got anywhere like a good deal for us.

Re: UK Can Stand Alone

Swimfeeders.

You are correct and Bac is now part of Airbus
Airbus employees 4.000 people in Filton Bristol and this order wiil keep them employed for a long time. So in effect it is a British export order amongs others

You of course are very knowledgable on the subject.

Re: UK Can Stand Alone

A good link here which blows the lid on all the future legislation poised to be dumped on us if we vote to stay in.
Be afraid, be very afraid...