Re: What's the point of it ?

Rena darlin' even the Bible (according to your extract) identifies the jewish nation to be as 'foreigners' in the land of Ka'anaan

(8 I will give you and your descendants after you the land in which you are now foreigners, all the land of Kena'an, as a permanent possession; and I will be their God." )

Which means they occupied and stole the land from the indigenous people already there (the Arabs, who as a nomadic people tended to wander their land and not settle in any one given place.) Thus the land of Ka'anaan (now renamed Israel) does not and never did belong to the jewish nation. Following the end of WW2, they again occupied and stole the land from the indigenous Arab population. The Israelis are therefore thieves and murderers.

Re: What's the point of it ?

Just like all those who have fought wars and took over their enemies lands Joe. I think that makes us all 'thieves and Murderers ' by your way of thinking.

Rena, I was once told by my Scripture teacher not to interpret the bible as we know of relationships today. When people are called 'Brothers' what it really means is 'of a tribe' so Cain and Able as well as Issac and Ishmael could be looked on as different Tribes.
My limited knowledge of the bible and it's interpretation does seem to mix things up.

Re: What's the point of it ?

Just like all those who have fought wars and took over their enemies lands Joe. I think that makes us all 'thieves and Murderers ' by your way of thinking.

Precisely so Bob and then various peace treaties subsequently have either returned that land or enshrined it in the peace treaty. However Israel has, occupied vast tracts of Palestine contrary to International Law and various United Nations resolutions so they remain thieves and murderers.

Re: What's the point of it ?

Probably not the best tool to use to try to convey my thoughts Antibrown, - sorry and I do have problems with biblical and other religious writings generally so I was probably foolish there. What I was trying to say is that I understand the Jews as a race of peoples originated in the Middle East along with many of the arab tribes and, therefore, have a right to return and to be there. I also think that the Jews and the Arab peoples are very similar in their origins (hence the example of Abraham, Issac and Ishmael). I think that by analysising the DNA of this peoples this connection has been established. I believe religion has done much to divide these tribes and keep them divided.

Uncle Joe seems to have very strong feelings regarding the Israelies and for my own personal reasons I am not going to reply to him directly although I think he is wrong when he calls the Israelies thieves and murderers. Hamas are no angels. If that is the case then history tells that the British, Spanish,Portugese, Dutch, French Italians, Germans etc., are far worse thieves and murders - slavers as well (llike the arabs). If you think about only the native Americans have a right to America - but try telling this "land of the free" that. Also nobody who is not of African origins has a right to Africa either. Same goes for Austraia, New Zealand and so on. I can't see any of these people giving these countries back to the original inhabitants. The Arabs were slave traders, along with Egyptians and many other nations - the catalogue of injustices goes on and on and many parts of the world and the reasons for what people do to each other and perpetuate hatreds seem complicated. Ah Man.

Re: What's the point of it ?

Going through some old posts of yours always thought you where Jewish as you have stated that you have lost some of your family in the Nazi death camps.

Re: What's the point of it ?

The bottom line is that the whole thing is a horrendous mess. Both Arabs and Jews are semitic people of very similar genetic origin. Modern day Israel was established on the back of a campaign of Zionist terrorism conducted by groups such as the Stern Gang and the Irgun (many of whose former members became "Israeli statesmen" in the new Israel). Israel's landgrabbing (directly against huge numbers of UN resolutions) has been horrendous and it is only due to the support from the US that they have been able to get away with it. On the other side, we have Hamas, who are willing to cynically provoke and exploit Israel's retaliations (at whatever cost to the Palestinian people) in order to further their islamic jihad. In the middle we have the long suffering Palestinian people - thrown out of their homeland by the establishment of the state of Israel and its continuing encroachment - most of whom just want peace so that their children can grow up safely.
There must be an answer, but I'm buggered if I can see it!

Mick

Re: What's the point of it ?

Very true Sue darlin' - I did lose some of my family in the Nazi death camps, but that doesn't (a) make me Jewish, since there were others (Communists, Socialists, Journalists, et al) who wewre murdered by this evil Fascist regime (b) Doesn't make me a Zionist - a philosophy I abhor and detest with vengeance and equate their actions with those of the very people who persecuted them in the first place!!!