Looks like Clegg and others have been telling lies about EU Army

If the article in the link below is true, it looks like our youngsters may be in the EU after all.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ean-Parliament

Is this what May meant by this quote from her Florence speech:-

(quote)"Here on our own continent, we see territorial aggression to the east; and from the South threats from instability and civil war; terrorism, crime and other challenges which respect no borders.
The only way for us to respond to this vast array of challenges is for likeminded nations and peoples to come together and defend the international order that we have worked so hard to create – and the values of liberty, democracy, human rights and the rule of law by which we stand.
Britain has always – and will always – stand with its friends and allies in defence of these values.
Our decision to leave the European Union is in no way a repudiation of this longstanding commitment. We may be leaving the European Union, but we are not leaving Europe.
Our resolve to draw on the full weight of our military, intelligence, diplomatic and development resources to lead international action, with our partners, on the issues that affect the security and prosperity of our peoples is unchanged.
Our commitment to the defence – and indeed the advance – of our shared values is undimmed.
Our determination to defend the stability, security and prosperity of our European neighbours and friends remains steadfast." (unquote)

And yet we are still making cuts to our military, I would like to know how much Theresa May has promised for the EU Army.

Re: Looks like Clegg and others have been telling lies about EU Army

If there ever was an EU army and we were post-brexit, there's no reason we wouldn't join whatever missions they undertake. We are after all allies. I'm not a fan but don't see how it's any more sinister than NATO.

Re: Looks like Clegg and others have been telling lies about EU Army

Hi

It is always helpful to address the facts in a discussion.

PESCO is voluntary, not mandatory, this is provided for in the EU Treaties.

The interests of NATO and the EU do not always coincide.

I would not expect to use NATO to force the USA to help control the Migrant problem Europe has at the moment in the same way that I would not expect the USA to use NATO to patrol their border with Mexico.

We already have military cooperation outside of the remit of NATO.

It is not that long ago, 2015, that the UK had to borrow a sub hunting aircraft, having scrapped our own, to investigate reports of submarines off Scotland.

The other important side of the EU Defense Pact is the start of cooperating on building standard military hardware to reduce reliance on costly imports from the USA, particularly in respect f aircraft, missiles and missile defence systems.

This is a good thing as it will generate a load of jobs in the EU and our defence companies would benefit greatly from it, in particular BAE Systems.

Now we are leaving the EU there will be no benefit to UK Industry.

The Express is a newspaper which is very pro Brexit and it is not an entirely reliable source of facts.

Re: Looks like Clegg and others have been telling lies about EU Army

I agree with your last sentence Swimmy. As soon as I see a link posted to the Express or Mail, i dont even look at it as I know that it will be heavily biased. They are the reason I no longer buy newspapers, preferring to take my sources from a wider field.

Should conflict arise, the UK could not protect itself. As someone who shared twenty years of my life with those with close connections to the Nimrod from it's pre-Service introduction, to operation. Knowing just how effective they were, it was the UK government's biggest mistake ever, scrapping aircraft just about to be brought into Service. We are left now to rely on others, just as we will be if conflict were to break out.

Re: Looks like Clegg and others have been telling lies about EU Army

With one lad in the army I've been alarmed at many reports from the eu, I truly think we have enough armies in the world but we aren't looking after our own properly and instead of making a new one we need to look after ones we already have. So happy we won't be funding this as I can't imagine how our army would feel if we had money for that and not for them.

Re: Looks like Clegg and others have been telling lies about EU Army

The bottom line, while ever we remain in the EU, is that we are contractually bound by the Lisbon Treaty to make our military services available to the EU for it's own agendas. i.e. Yes, the EU Army.

Lisbon Treaty

Page 39 10A-c-3 "Member States shall make civilian and military capabilities available to the Union for the implementation of the common security and defence policy,”

“Member States shall undertake progressively to improve their military capabilities.”

In other words, wherever the EU bureaucrats want to wage war, the UK military services would have to contribute.

Re: Looks like Clegg and others have been telling lies about EU Army

What is wrong with that?

Re: Looks like Clegg and others have been telling lies about EU Army

I'd be very upset to hear our boys and girls were for instance sent into Spain to keep order, or to wage a war that France and Germany wanted. Very upset indeed.

Re: Looks like Clegg and others have been telling lies about EU Army

Hi

No, that is incorrect

That part of the Treaty you refer to is voluntary.

" The European Defence Agency shall be open to all Member States wishing to be part of it. The Council, acting by a qualified majority, shall adopt a decision defining the Agency's statute, seat and operational rules. That decision should take account of the level of effective participation in the Agency's activities. Specific groups shall be set up within the Agency bringing together Member States engaged in joint projects. The Agency shall carry out its tasks in liaison with the Commission where necessary."

It is not mandatory at all and the UK has chosen not to be part of it.

Re: Looks like Clegg and others have been telling lies about EU Army

Forgive me Swim, what I read in the treaty does not agree with that at all. Allow me to cite the references:

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the...rticle-42.html

"1. The common security and defence policy shall be an integral part of the common foreign and security policy. It shall provide the Union with an operational capacity drawing on civilian and military assets. The Union may use them on missions outside the Union for peace-keeping, conflict prevention and strengthening international security in accordance with the principles of the United Nations Charter. The performance of these tasks shall be undertaken using capabilities provided by the Member States."

This is the more salient part:

"3. Member States shall make civilian and military capabilities available to the Union for the implementation of the common security and defence policy, to contribute to the objectives defined by the Council. Those Member States which together establish multinational forces may also make them available to the common security and defence policy."

The optional element you refer to is that second part. The first part is unquestionable. Member states SHALL make their military capabilities available.