EU - PESCO Defence and Intelligence

http://veteransforbritain.uk/vfb-chairman-speech/

http://veteransforbritain.uk/comment/

https://twitter.com/VeteransBritain

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/de...fall-87d79d865


I have put 4 links on the website so that people can understand as to what our government has permanently signed the UK up to, even if we do BREXIT. The first signing was November 2016 which was after the Referendum on Mrs Mays watch.

Further signing on the next stages of PESCO is happening on Monday, 13th November 2017. Allegedly, there has not been any Parliamentary debate on this or media coverage as far as I know, except for the link to the Daily Express which I put on another thread on this subject.

There are various items about ‘PESCO’ on the EU website which goes into further details about the future plans for it. If we sign on Monday, as far as I can see the UK will have no say in our Military anymore.

Ask yourselves, if we are leaving the EU why are we even considering cutting our Military, recently announced, 1000 Royal Marines may be cut.

I personally, will not be debating this thread, I have already made my mind up about the EU as it stands. I have put the links on so that people can have information that hasn’t been given to us by the government, so it seems.

Re: EU - PESCO Defence and Intelligence

I haven't read all of those. Just wondering if something is being pushed through post haste , whilst we are still an EU member state.

I read today that France, Italy and Turkey have signed an agreement over a military arrangement on missile defence , just yesterday.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-tu...-idUKKBN1D82FD

I don't like it !

Re: EU - PESCO Defence and Intelligence

Farage was fuming about this on his drive time show. I was pretty shocked that we are signing up to it. Although better in it than in a limbo on our own maybe? Or are we planning to be Switzerland post-Brexit? Neutral but with one of the best trained armies in the world and compulsory conscription?

Re: EU - PESCO Defence and Intelligence

quote : " PESCO, as defined by the 2009 Lisbon Treaty, is an inclusive, output-oriented, and legally-binding framework of cooperation on defense, with an ambitious commitment to address “the most demanding missions"

http://www.gmfus.org/publications/ca...ard-eu-defense

Who is to command this ? I think it is to be an Italian guy. It simply means we have to do as we are told and fight were we do not want to. It sounds like a revival of the 'clicking heeled Commandant' ,or something else just as sinister.

Re: EU - PESCO Defence and Intelligence

Hi

I think some may have got the wrong idea about PESCO.

It is completely different to the EU Army, which is the thing that I am opposed to.

PESCO is something the UK has been pushing for, it is about standardising weapons systems and computer systems.

This makes things cheaper to develop, defense is very expensive and is an extension of simple things like NATO Standard ammunition.

The EU is losing out and buying more and more American Systems, which, like the new fighter we have ordered, have become ludicrously expensive.

This is affecting UK Industry and jobs.

Anything developed under PESCO does not affect National Sovereignty in anyway and remains entirely under the control of the nation using it.

It is also about the integration of computer systems, both military and civilian, a common coding system which allows countries to share information quickly should they need to do so.

I have no fear of it at all.

Re: EU - PESCO Defence and Intelligence

In that case, why are they saying this ?

" So it falls to ordinary people to campaign, to raise awareness among MPs and to secure the UK’s right to leave these agreements so that the country may retain our democratic control over HM Armed Forces. It would be a peculiar victory if we obtain our freedom from the EU at the same moment as we have surrendered our ability to defend that freedom.”

Re: EU - PESCO Defence and Intelligence

Hi

Either they have misunderstood the reason for PESCO or they have an Agenda.

We already have an absolute exemption from the proposed European Army and are leaving anyway, so absolutely nothing to do with us at all, they can go and play their games.

The costs of buying USA Hardware is horrendous and never goes to Budget or on time.

We have two massive aircraft carriers, each capable of carrying 35 F35Bs, the american planes we have ordered,

The costs have gone up such that they will only be carrying 12 and they will not be ready until 2023.

The Government earlier this year even refused the true cost of these planes.

Re: EU - PESCO Defence and Intelligence

Well in that case Farage was completely misleading listeners yesterday.

Re: EU - PESCO Defence and Intelligence

As he always has done.

Re: EU - PESCO Defence and Intelligence

So why is an Italian woman going to be commanding the troops and why are various countries dividing up what they will provide, one helicopters, another tanks etc and why will we be not allowed to build our own defence fleet, we wil, have to put it out to tender in the eu ? There is a lot more to this than just standardising things. Eu wants to be as big as USA and China, we don't need to do that unless we are planning a war !