Re: Muslims fighting back, 'Not in my name'

Good and evil are not just Christian concepts, they have been recognised by humans for as long as we have been in existence. Good is not only practiced by Christians, there is a lot of good done by non-Christians too.
Evil is to be seen in human being too, not just the devil whether you believe in him/her or not. There again it depends on the definition of evil.
Women used to be burned at the stake as evil witches in the past when they were actually suffering from mental illness or just people who were outcasts for some reason.

Regarding integration it make sense that it helps if communities integrate, those with white skin who come from Europe integrate and become 'invisible' much more easily. Their way of dress and culture are much more similar.

The more the difference the longer it takes and of course it is not reasonable to expect an older lady who has worn a long dress which covers her body all her life to suddenly start wearing jeans and jackets and lower necklines, like many ladies my age do in the UK.
It takes time but we are better at building barriers than breaking them down sadly.

Re: Muslims fighting back, 'Not in my name'

I agree with everything you've said and maybe all parties should celebrate the fact that we have common beliefs.

As regards integration, it would help if there were still places for people to meet socially - but many village halls have been sold for housing developments. It would also help to provide English language lessons and withdraw the services of translators............... I think some of this is already being done.

Another idea to try could also be to have volunteer mentors.

Perhaps with all the positive statistics showing how much immigrants contribute to the economy, we could also show which nationalities claim the most benefits....but that's not going to win votes, so won't be done..........even by UKIP!!

Re: Muslims fighting back, 'Not in my name'

I think that there are those who tell the truth and those who bend the truth, unfortunately the whole truth and nothing but the truth is hard to come by.
A lot of immigrants in the UK are actually professionals who have no intention of claiming benefits.
They work in areas like engineering and the medical profession. There are a lot of overseas workers in many professions as there is nobody to fill the roles from the UK. Engineering companies are desperately short of suitable candidates which they can only find from overseas. Many of them come from countries like Spain where young people cannot find work because of the recession.
It's the same in the medical profession. At the same time young medical professionals trained here are leaving to work in places like Australia where they are better treated and have better work conditions and pay.
Not only are immigrants contributing to the economy some of the institutions we rely on would not be able to operate without them.
Its not so different to how it has been in the past, Irish labour was used to for decades in the building trade and Irish nurses were a mainstay of the NHS.
Less educated people worked in nursing homes and in the catering trade as young people from Eastern Europe do now.

Re: Muslims fighting back, 'Not in my name'

I think integration is a very outdated concept in terms of immigration - surely we should be celebrating difference and pluralism. In schools now the idea of a black perspective is taught - which I think is much kinder and ultimately more beneficial.

I don't believe or accept that immigrants should learn and adopt British customs (whatever they are!) I think the host population should be educated to respect to a much greater degree the beliefs, customs and traditions of new arrivals. Surely that is multi-culturalism not do-as-we-do and then you can be accepted? I want to live in a country that is sufficiently confident with itself to accept a whole range of micro-cultures.

As has been said so many times by the enlightened on these forums the refusal to accept difference, the alienation of, for example, Muslims, has provided ISIS with a ready band of largely disenfranchised youths with serious identity issues.

Re: Muslims fighting back, 'Not in my name'

Bruce - I think your view is admirable and it certainly seems to have worked in other countries - America and Canada both seem to have accepted multi-culturalism. My children were taught about other faiths in their schools and they seem to be quite accepting of a multi-race society.........so why are so many still uncomfortable with the nature and/or size of the immigrant population?
My old view is that in not too many years we will all be a lovely shade of brown, and perhaps the sooner that happens the better, but........we don't need to adopt a faith which dictates an unfamiliar way of life and has a large extremist faction. Another point to consider is that unlike America and Canada, our history is somewhat longer and we have an island mentality = quote from Wikipedia: "Island mentality can be characterized by narrow-mindedness, ignorance, or outright hostility towards any artifact (concept, ideology, lifestyle choice, art form, etc.) originating from outside of the geographic area inhabited by the society."

Re: Muslims fighting back, 'Not in my name'

Forced integration someone mentioned, I would love to know what that means ? We have to be more welcoming, then they will integrate more, one lady I worked with recently she wears traditional Indian clothing, looks fantastic and so colourful, arrived at work so many times and had to have us help clean her up where some low lifes had spat on her as she walked to work !
She was learning English really putting in the effort, her husband stopped that when she was deliberately tripped on her way home by a gang of girls and broke her wrist in the fall.

She now (I visited her yesterday evening) doesn't work and spends all day in doors with the curtains closed. She has IMO done her best to integrate, but we let her down and have sent her scurrying back into her own community.


She isn't alone I know several ladies who have to be escorted by their male family members - some would look at the scene and say they are controlled I see them being protected from us !

Re: Muslims fighting back, 'Not in my name'

That is disgusting - I hate to hear this !
On the whole subject, I do adhere to the principle of learning English. Other than that I like to see the cultural differences .......

Re: Muslims fighting back, 'Not in my name'

Julie, I think this is where this thread the the discussion on being too PC cross over a bit.
If you witnessed the kids who tripped up that woman........what you WANT to do is probably different to what you WOULD do. I know I'd like to tell them off, report them to their parents, police, school.........and it would be good if other adults around me did the same, but we're all too PC to say a word......so the kids get away with it and do it again and again.

Last time I was on a train, a bunch of school kids were being a real nuisance and the adults were extremely irritated but said nothing. I went up to the ring leader and took his photo on my phone.....then returned to my seat. It worked and shut them up, but I didn't get any support from the other adults........