05-01-2018, 03:26 PM
51
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by twizzle
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I don’t think for one moment the EU leaders or people hate us, but they have every right to be angry and disappointed with the Brexiters who have let down our friends and allies but are expecting to have their cake and eat it, expecting the privileges of membership with none of the responsibilities. It was the Brexiters choice to leave so it’s the EU leaders duty to protect their members interests, they are no longer responsible for the welfare of the UK, the Brexiters choice.I just hope the leaders and people of the EU remember that the Brexiters and their vote don’t represent nearly half of the voters in the UK and May is negotiating only for the Brexiters.
The EU hates the UK with a passion and a vengeance.
We knew it ........but underestimated it.
The EU's legal duty was to negotiate with the UK with good intent once article 50 was invoked. It's in the EU constitution. They haven't done that and they answer to no one.......
Can't wait until we leave that nest of vipers!
05-01-2018, 03:30 PM
52
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by twizzle
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I don’t think for one moment the EU leaders or people hate us, but they have every right to be angry and disappointed with the Brexiters who have let down our friends and allies but are expecting to have their cake and eat it, expecting the privileges of membership with none of the responsibilities. It was the Brexiters choice to leave so it’s the EU leaders duty to protect their members interests, they are no longer responsible for the welfare of the UK, the Brexiters choice.I just hope the leaders and people of the EU remember that the Brexiters and their vote don’t represent nearly half of the voters in the UK and May is negotiating only for the Brexiters.
We are a democracy, of those who bothered to vote more than half voted out, so out we go.
It is not that difficult to understand.
05-01-2018, 05:03 PM
53
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by twizzle
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I don’t see how it’s possible to meet half way, we either stay in the EU or leave. If I’m to be dragged out then I will never accept the changes Brexit brings, because that would be to enable something I think is morally wrong, so I’ll oppose all changes Brexit brings and work towards taking the UK back into the EU.I think the split in the country will be permanent, the
Referendum has brought into sharp focus the differences between types of people, their beliefs and principles and I think we’ll be in conflict for many years.
05-01-2018, 05:14 PM
54
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by Moscow
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I disagree most vehemently.The EU hates the UK with a passion and a vengeance.
We knew it ........but underestimated it.
The EU's legal duty was to negotiate with the UK with good intent once article 50 was invoked. It's in the EU constitution. They haven't done that and they answer to no one.......
Can't wait until we leave that nest of vipers!
05-01-2018, 06:31 PM
55
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
HiThe process for leaving is defined in Article 50.
The process for conducting the negotiations is defined in Article 218.
The negotiating stance is decided by the Heads of all 27 EU Countries, not by Barnier, Juncker and Co.
Our red lines, laid down by Theresa May were no Single Market, no Customs Union, no ECJ.
We have also specifically ruled out a Switzerland type agreement as this involves Free Movement.
All the above were decided upon by our Government, not the EU.
These leaves the UK with two options.
A Free Trade Agreement, which will not cover our biggest exports, which are Services, or No Deal, which is straight to WTO Rules, which again, do not cover Services.
The last three big EU Trade Deals, which we are part of, for the time being, Canada, Japan and South Korea, all have clauses in them.
These clauses provide that if the EU gives a better deal to anyone else in the future, they get the same.
I cannot foresee the EU giving the UK any deal on services, it would be stupid for them to do so,the big Japanese and South Korean service companies would be in like a flash.
It is the UK which has laid down the rules, not the EU.
Will we get a deal, I am sure we will, but it will not be one that we want, it will be the same as Canada, Japan and South Korea.
It is not the end of the World, it would leave the UK around £12 Billion a year worse off than we are staying in.
It is not an insoluble problem, we can seriously cut our Foreign Aid Budget and raise Income Tax.
05-01-2018, 06:37 PM
56
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by Julie1962
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Yes that's how I read read that too they are supposed to help their neighbours !
I think most of the hate comes from the Brexiters, some of whom seem to loathe the French and Germans especially (jealousy?), perpetuate the old war time grudges and inflict them on the generation and trot out childish insults like “Frogs”
05-01-2018, 08:06 PM
57
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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HiThe process for leaving is defined in Article 50.
The process for conducting the negotiations is defined in Article 218.
The negotiating stance is decided by the Heads of all 27 EU Countries, not by Barnier, Juncker and Co.
Our red lines, laid down by Theresa May were no Single Market, no Customs Union, no ECJ.
We have also specifically ruled out a Switzerland type agreement as this involves Free Movement.
All the above were decided upon by our Government, not the EU.
These leaves the UK with two options.
A Free Trade Agreement, which will not cover our biggest exports, which are Services, or No Deal, which is straight to WTO Rules, which again, do not cover Services.
The last three big EU Trade Deals, which we are part of, for the time being, Canada, Japan and South Korea, all have clauses in them.
These clauses provide that if the EU gives a better deal to anyone else in the future, they get the same.
I cannot foresee the EU giving the UK any deal on services, it would be stupid for them to do so,the big Japanese and South Korean service companies would be in like a flash.
It is the UK which has laid down the rules, not the EU.
Will we get a deal, I am sure we will, but it will not be one that we want, it will be the same as Canada, Japan and South Korea.
It is not the end of the World, it would leave the UK around £12 Billion a year worse off than we are staying in.
It is not an insoluble problem, we can seriously cut our Foreign Aid Budget and raise Income Tax.
Their negotiating attitude is also defined in Article 3(5).
Tell me it's adhering to that !!!
As for our post Brexit relationship costing us 12 billion.....That's a price worth paying and a sum we will soon recoup in new trade.
The EU will also lose out and I doubt they will pilfer our prize assets quite as much as you like to think. Our service industry is too well embedded in London and the expertise and infrastructure there is not as relocateable as you kid on.
The EU's responsibility under article50 is to conclude the divorce and at least set a framework for a future relationship. All within 2 years.
They are running out of time as much as we are and the lack of access to our Services expertise will be a massive problem for them........Our Govt is well aware of that!
05-01-2018, 08:11 PM
58
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by Moscow
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Their negotiating attitude is also defined in Article 3(5).Tell me it's adhering to that !!!
05-01-2018, 08:19 PM
59
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by Purwell
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Impossible to tell you anything, you seem to know it all.
An opinion ( 99% of your musings) is just straw in the wind!
05-01-2018, 08:25 PM
60
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by twizzle
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Why should they help the UK when the Brexiters have led us into abandoning and betraying them and what they stand for? And then have the nerve to demand to be treated as if the betrayal never happened? The EU leaders first duty of kindliness is to their own members, as the Brexiters have made the UK look like such a bad neighbour and friend.I think most of the hate comes from the Brexiters, some of whom seem to loathe the French and Germans especially (jealousy?), perpetuate the old war time grudges and inflict them on the generation and trot out childish insults like “Frogs”
You can only betray your own Sovereign Nation State.....Not an elitist, undemocratic dictatorship like the EU.
Show us these insults you refer to. I think they're in your imagination. Voting to Leave the EU was not a declaration of war and it was not a declaration of hatred to any nation, race or creed.
It was simple Yes or No declaration of wishing to continue membership of a political organisation.
The only people who got nasty were he EU and the Remaniacs.....of which you are one!
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