05-01-2018, 08:30 PM
61
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by Moscow
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What do you mean 'Betrayal' ?You can only betray your own Sovereign Nation State.....Not an elitist, undemocratic dictatorship like the EU.
Show us these insults you refer to. I think they're in your imagination. Voting to Leave the EU was not a declaration of war and it was not a declaration of hatred to any nation, race or creed.
It was simple Yes or No declaration of wishing to continue membership of a political organisation.
The only people who got nasty were he EU and the Remaniacs.....of which you are one!
05-01-2018, 10:59 PM
64
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by Moscow
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I disagree most vehemently.The EU hates the UK with a passion and a vengeance.
We knew it ........but underestimated it.
The EU's legal duty was to negotiate with the UK with good intent once article 50 was invoked. It's in the EU constitution. They haven't done that and they answer to no one.......
Can't wait until we leave that nest of vipers!
Not only do they hate us for leaving, but they are also very worried that if we make a success of it (and we will) others are bound to follow.
We are not going to get any worthwhile deal from the EU. All they are interested in is screwing as much money out of us as they can. We should walk and trade under WTO rules. The sooner we leave, the sooner we stop paying for nothing.
06-01-2018, 01:06 AM
65
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by Purwell
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You do like shouting don't you? Stupid people tend to think that gets their point across
06-01-2018, 01:17 AM
66
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by Moscow
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You do like calling people stupid.......isn't that what stupid people do?.....lmfao!
06-01-2018, 01:27 AM
67
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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HiThe process for leaving is defined in Article 50.
The process for conducting the negotiations is defined in Article 218.
The negotiating stance is decided by the Heads of all 27 EU Countries, not by Barnier, Juncker and Co.
Our red lines, laid down by Theresa May were no Single Market, no Customs Union, no ECJ.
We have also specifically ruled out a Switzerland type agreement as this involves Free Movement.
All the above were decided upon by our Government, not the EU.
These leaves the UK with two options.
A Free Trade Agreement, which will not cover our biggest exports, which are Services, or No Deal, which is straight to WTO Rules, which again, do not cover Services.
The last three big EU Trade Deals, which we are part of, for the time being, Canada, Japan and South Korea, all have clauses in them.
These clauses provide that if the EU gives a better deal to anyone else in the future, they get the same.
I cannot foresee the EU giving the UK any deal on services, it would be stupid for them to do so,the big Japanese and South Korean service companies would be in like a flash.
It is the UK which has laid down the rules, not the EU.
Will we get a deal, I am sure we will, but it will not be one that we want, it will be the same as Canada, Japan and South Korea.
It is not the end of the World, it would leave the UK around £12 Billion a year worse off than we are staying in.
It is not an insoluble problem, we can seriously cut our Foreign Aid Budget and raise Income Tax.
06-01-2018, 03:34 AM
68
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
HiArticle 3 is very specific, subsection 5 needs to read in context.
Article 3
1. The Union's aim is to promote peace, its values and the well-being of its peoples.
2. The Union shall offer its citizens an area of freedom, security and justice without internal frontiers, in which the free movement of persons is ensured in conjunction with appropriate measures with respect to external border controls, asylum, immigration and the prevention and combating of crime.
3. The Union shall establish an internal market. It shall work for the sustainable development of Europe based on balanced economic growth and price stability, a highly competitive social market economy, aiming at full employment and social progress, and a high level of protection and improvement of the quality of the environment. It shall promote scientific and technological advance.
It shall combat social exclusion and discrimination, and shall promote social justice and protection, equality between women and men, solidarity between generations and protection of the rights of the child.
It shall promote economic, social and territorial cohesion, and solidarity among Member States.
It shall respect its rich cultural and linguistic diversity, and shall ensure that Europe's cultural heritage is safeguarded and enhanced.
4. The Union shall establish an economic and monetary union whose currency is the euro.
5. In its relations with the wider world, the Union shall uphold and promote its values and interests and contribute to the protection of its citizens. It shall contribute to peace, security, the sustainable development of the Earth, solidarity and mutual respect among peoples, free and fair trade, eradication of poverty and the protection of human rights, in particular the rights of the child, as well as to the strict observance and the development of international law, including respect for the principles of the United Nations Charter.
6. The Union shall pursue its objectives by appropriate means commensurate with the competences which are conferred upon it in the Treaties.
The highlighted bit is the important bit.
The EU shall uphold and promote it's interests.
That is exactly what it is doing, protecting it's interests.
This includes the Services Sector and that is the bit we, the UK, have used extensively to protect and grow our main earner, which is Services.
We have used it for decades to protect our Services Sector and to block any Trade Deals which would impact on it.
We can hardly start to complain now that we are leaving that this is unfair, that really is the pot calling the kettle black.
Any Trade Deals we do in the future will most certainly protect our Services Sector.
Where did I get the £12 Billion from?
London currently does £ Trillions in Euro Trading and Insurance, which amounts to £20 Billion in Tax for us.
Subtract our Net Payments to the EU and there we are.
Trade Deals take years to negotiate, that is the Nature of the Beast.
There will not be massive job losses in the Services Sector, deals will still be processed in the UK, transmitted instantaneously to branches in the EU, and the button pressed there.
The Tax will then be payable in the EU, not in the UK, hence my figures.
The loss is preferable to the alternative, which is a central EU Tax Policy etc etc.
We will be fine in the long term, but the next 5 to 10 years we will take the hit.
I am cool about this, I have planned for it.
06-01-2018, 09:47 AM
69
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
You're like a terrorist that takes a handful of words in the Bible or Koran out of context and uses it to justify murder.You say the highlighted text is the important bit.......read the very next line that follows.........That changes your extremist attitude and tempers it with the commitment to 'Contribute to peace, security, the sustainable development of the Earth, solidarityand mutual respect among peoples, free and fair trade etc etc
What pat of that don't you get?
Where is the respect and solidarity with our decision to vote Leave in a free and fair election.
Why have they abandoned their stated principles,Swim, and why do you support them in that ?
06-01-2018, 10:44 AM
70
Re: Oh Dear!!! - Brexit not going so well
Originally Posted by Moscow
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You're like a terrorist that takes a handful of words in the Bible or Koran out of context and uses it to justify murder.You say the highlighted text is the important bit.......read the very next line that follows.........That changes your extremist attitude and tempers it with the commitment to 'Contribute to peace, security, the sustainable development of the Earth, solidarityand mutual respect among peoples, free and fair trade etc etc
What pat of that don't you get?
Where is the respect and solidarity with our decision to vote Leave in a free and fair election.
Why have they abandoned their stated principles,Swim, and why do you support them in that ?
Hi
Free and fair trade is taken as WTO Rules, which do not cover Services.
That is Internationally agreed.
I have been part of the system for many years, admittedly not at the top for the last 14 years, but I know every trick in the book, particularly those we used ruthlessly as part of the EU to protect our main earner, which is Services.
It comes as absolutely no surprise to me that the EU are now playing the same game, we taught them how to do it.
I was a PORP, politically restricted post holder, now I am retired I can more or less say what I want.
Which includes the fact that I consider Theresa May to be a control freak who cannot see the bigger picture and that David Davies, Liam Fox, Boris and Gove are numpties.
The whole bunch of them are not doing the UK any favours at all in negotiating with the EU.
We cannot just walk away and go to WTO Rules, we simply have not got the systems in place and the EU know it.
It is an empty threat, we are asking the EU for a 2 year Transition Period and are being stung for it.
If we had delayed Article 50 for a year and spent that time getting ready to leave we would not be in this position of having to give £20 Billion or so to the EU more than we have to.
It riles me, it really does.
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