| View Poll Results: What do you want to happen by end of year? | |||
| Deal |
   
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3 | 14.29% |
| No Deal |
  
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15 | 71.43% |
| Extension of transition |
  
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3 | 14.29% |
| Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll | |||
28-12-2020, 05:04 PM
281
Re: Deal before Year End?
Originally Posted by Bread
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There is a lot of discussion around the "independent arbitrator" between the EU and the UK for disputes. I don't know who it is yet and I haven't heard anything yet on-line but I'm hoping as far as trade is concerned it is the WTO. There is a lot of "bigging themselves up" on both the EU and UK side at the moment with the media and leave/remain groups all disagreeing with each other about all this. As far as I've read myself...1. We are outside the ECJ
2. We are not in the single market or customs union
3. We are completely outiside the EU laws and jurisdictions
4. We have control of our fisheries, under a 5.5 year arrangement that reduces the EU catch quotas by 25% over this period. At the end of the 5.5 years, the UK has total control and can allocate quotas on a negotiated annual basis, with itself having 2/3 for the UK fleet.
There is a clause in the fisheries section where, if the EU fleet do not abide by our rules we can revoke the agreement with 9 months notice and be out of it in 12 months. This starts from 1st January, as does the UK fisheries bill so we are out of the CFP.
5. We remain contributors to some EU projects, such as Horizon to share scientific knowledge and EURATOM for nuclear cooperation and alignment etc.
6. We have a non-regression clause that means we will not reduce our current standards so that we trade fairly with the EU although we maintain mutual recognition.
7. Financial services - no passporting required and mutual recognition of each others regulators so actually better than we had before.
8. Total control over our borders
9. Out of Erasmus2
10. We remain signed up to the EHRC but we signed up to that before the EU existed anyway as did most other countries in Europe except the EU themselves. We exceed the standards required by the EHRC in a lot of areas anyway.
So far, although there is a degree of sell out on fisheries (over the 5.5 year transition) I think all in all its way better than we could have expected .... and it is zero tarrif and zero quota on goods. That's what I've seen so far....
This sounds contradictory.
28-12-2020, 05:06 PM
282
Re: Deal before Year End?
Originally Posted by Percy Vere
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Quite, Bread.As far as Erasmus2 goes, while it's a good idea, it's bloody expensive to manage and administrate (I know because our laboratory used to have a couple of Erasmus students every year based there). Boris was spouting off about a new version he was calling "Turing" (presumably after Alan Turing) which would allow our students to study anywhere in the world rather than be tied to EU universities.
Although I don't like to admit it, there are several world-leading universities in America which are the best in the world, superior to all of the EU ones.
28-12-2020, 05:11 PM
283
Re: Deal before Year End?
Originally Posted by JBR
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This sounds far preferable.Although I don't like to admit it, there are several world-leading universities in America which are the best in the world, superior to all of the EU ones.
28-12-2020, 05:22 PM
284
Re: Deal before Year End?
Originally Posted by Percy Vere
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Here's a link to the top 100 universites in the world. The 1st 4 are in the USA, Oxford is 5th, a Zurich uni is 6th. The first EU-based university is The Technical University of Munich and THAT one comes in at No. 50!!!
Even more encouraging, it appears that we have no less than eight universities there before the first EU one arrives!
I'm sure that the language spoken accounts to some extent for the prevalence of American and British universities (even though the Americans speak a rather debased form of English!
)
28-12-2020, 05:22 PM
285
Re: Deal before Year End?
Originally Posted by JBR
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Re. my emboldened section, is it definite that after 5 1/2 years we regain full control of our fishing areas, or are we limited to having only 2/3 for ourselves.This sounds contradictory.
We control everything - foreign vessels have always had access to fish our waters even before the EU. Just bear in mind that the 40% is also for reciprocal arrangements for countries such as Norway and Iceland and the rest of the world including the EU.
28-12-2020, 05:24 PM
287
Re: Deal before Year End?
Originally Posted by JBR
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Exactly! The one I had in mind was the Swiss one but, of course, I falsely regarded that as being EU rather than European.
for THAT mistake I think 
28-12-2020, 07:49 PM
289
Re: Deal before Year End?
Originally Posted by Bread
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Erasmus2 only favoured free holidays for teachers and EU students. Most UK students go abroad to the USA and Australia to study not Europe. They go where people speak English
In addition only half of those relatively few UK students who chose to study in Europe did so through the Erasmus scheme.
In the year 2017/2018 only 34,000 UK students studied overseas out of well over two million students; i.e. around 1.5% - and since the USA receives around a third of these, far and away more than any other single destination, leaving Erasmus isn't really even worthy of discussion since any difference it makes is realistically by any measure virtually insignificant.
Just consider this: for this year a total of 342,620 students arrived in the UK to pursue their qualification from countries outside of the European Union of which over 120,000 were from China.
Compare that number to the 31,727 that came from the EU via Erasmus, or indeed compare it to the total of 143,000 including Erasmus students who came to the UK to study from the EU.
28-12-2020, 08:05 PM
290
Re: Deal before Year End?
From Brendan Clark-Smith MP and member of the ERG.🇬🇧🇪🇺 BREXIT FAQs - I’ve received a number of emails about the vote on Wednesday and wanted to make my position clear on some of the main questions asked.
Q. Will you ask to extend the transition period?
A. No
Q. Any deal that we reach is not as good as the deal we had as EU members. Will you support calls to rejoin the EU?
A. No. And no, being a member wasn’t a good deal.
Q. Will you help stop Brexit?
A. Brexit has already happened. We are now in the transition period and preparing for our future relationship.
Q. This is not what we voted for is it?
A. It’s what 17,410,742 people voted for. And then we subsequently had two General Elections and a European Election where people were pretty clear what they wanted. People certainly didn’t vote to have endless referenda until one side got the result they wanted - which they still couldn’t get.
Q. I voted for no deal.
A. People voted to Leave or Remain. No deal is also a starting point, not a destination. So long as they are good deals, trade deals are a positive thing and something we would be working on anyway if we had left with no deal. The issue with previous deals was that they did not respect our sovereignty, which is what Brexit is all about. So far we have successfully negotiated trade deals all over the world, not just with the EU.
Q. The ECJ will still control us.
A. Which page of the agreement is that on?
Q. I don’t know. Do you?
A. It’s not on any page because they won’t be controlling anything. We will also have an independent dispute resolution method.
Q. Does this sell out our fishermen?
A. No, in fact it gives us more stocks and will eventually (after 5 years) be 100% unless we reach a future agreement. We also don’t have the capacity to fish all the stocks we currently have. This gives us time to develop the industry and prepare in the meantime.
Q. Have you read the whole document?
A. Yes, although I now await legal guidance on technical issues. We appear to have a great deal, but we want to make 100% sure with all the fine details - this is what I’m sure everybody would expect their representatives to do.
Q. You’re a member of the ERG. Doesn’t that mean you want no deal?
A. No, we would like to see a sensible deal that respects our sovereignty and doesn’t cross any ‘red lines’, for example our laws, our courts, our waters our immigration system etc. That’s the whole point of Brexit and we want to make sure it is done properly without any hidden loopholes, which is why we wanted to scrutinise the document first.
Q. Do you think this is a good deal?
A. Yes, I think it is a fair deal and achieves what we set out to. It’s not perfect, but in a negotiation you are never going to get 100% of what you want. Even Nigel Farage agrees.
Q. Will you abstain on the vote?
A. No, because abstaining is a cop-out. We have been sent to Westminster to make decisions, not to sit on the fence.
Q. Will you vote against the deal to stop Brexit like the Liberal Democrats and the SNP?
A. Voting against the deal will not stop Brexit - in fact it will mean we end up with ‘no deal’. I therefore don’t understand their logic.
Q. Do you agree with Labour that this is a bad deal and they could negotiate a better one?
A. What parts of the deal don’t they like? What would they do differently? So far they have no answers to these questions.
In short, the vote on Wednesday will allow us to turn the page and move on. What we see now are very much the last desperate attempts of those who wish to ignore the result of the referendum.
It is too late, Brexit has already been achieved. A deal also effectively puts an end to attempts to rejoin the European Union. Now is the time to be positive about Brexit and to make a success of if. This is something we can all benefit from.
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