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31-08-2017, 08:46 AM
11

Re: Barmier: "The EU will not move one millimetre"

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
They really are playing silly games about the Eu citizens, they should get that out of the way instead of trying to be clever and ending up burned.
The EU want to discuss the rights of EU citizens in the UK before they discuss anything else.

Are they willing to discuss the rights of UK citizens in the EU countries?

EDIT to add:

I wonder if the subject of EU citizens in the UK is so important to them on the basis that they'd like to send all their undesirables here.

Merkel invited them in and now she's realising that she's caused problems for her country she'd like to get rid of as many as she can. One way would be to give them EU citizenship and invite them to go to the UK where, apparently, the streets are paved with gold.
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31-08-2017, 08:51 AM
12

Re: Barmier: "The EU will not move one millimetre"

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

He is a paid employee of the EU.

We decided to leave with the cry of Brexit means Brexit and No deal is better than a Bad deal from Theresa May.

We then triggered Article 50 giving ourselves two years to leave.
From another perspective, I understand that our negotiators have been making proposals for concessions.

Their negotiators are just saying 'non'.

If they are not going to negotiate, we should leave.
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31-08-2017, 09:35 AM
13

Re: Barmier: "The EU will not move one millimetre"

Originally Posted by JBR ->
The EU want to discuss the rights of EU citizens in the UK before they discuss anything else.

Are they willing to discuss the rights of UK citizens in the EU countries?
Hi

Yes, they already have put forward their ideas.

The EU and UK have yet to come to an agreement.

The EU considers that the offer we put forward in relation to the 5 year rule we wished to impose was not acceptable.

The UK does not consider the offer the EU put forward was acceptable in relation to Health Insurance and residency rights for UK Citizens in the EU.

As regards the financial settlement the EU put forward their logic and reasoning for what we owe them some time ago.

The UK did not respond until recently, part of our plan to link any such payment to a transition period and a future trade deal.

The EU have refused to budge.

They are determined to minimise any financial loss from our contributions when we leave.

The UK is already going to lose tax from the Banks which are relocating Headquarters to the EU.

This is a big hit to our finances.

Time is running out, the EU know this.

The next deadline is our Insurance Services to the EU.

The big Insurance Companies based in London provide much of the Insurance to the EU.

They must must either move their EU Business to the EU or sell that part of the business which deals with EU Insurance to a Company based in the EU.

This involves going to the Courts both here and in the EU to do the transfers.

The deadline to start this is November.

It also affects EU Insurance Companies operating here, but to a much lesser extent.

Simple calculation for the EU, they are much better off doing nothing and taking the Tax Revenue for themselves.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...-idUKKCN1BA1F9
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31-08-2017, 10:25 AM
14

Re: Barmier: "The EU will not move one millimetre"

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->

As regards the financial settlement the EU put forward their logic and reasoning for what we owe them some time ago.
I see.

I'm afraid I haven't seen any details of that in the press. Is it being kept a secret, perhaps?

I should be very interested to see precisely how the EU justify our owing them £100 billion (or whatever the figure is now). I should have thought they'd have to provide an itemised list.

If you know of any publication, I'd be grateful if you could point me in the right direction.
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31-08-2017, 10:31 AM
15

Re: Barmier: "The EU will not move one millimetre"

Our Euro MPs seem unaware of the reasoning for the figure. I'd have thought if there was a costed version of the paperwork they'd be aware of it.
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31-08-2017, 11:14 AM
16

Re: Barmier: "The EU will not move one millimetre"

Originally Posted by JBR ->
I see.

I'm afraid I haven't seen any details of that in the press. Is it being kept a secret, perhaps?

I should be very interested to see precisely how the EU justify our owing them £100 billion (or whatever the figure is now). I should have thought they'd have to provide an itemised list.

If you know of any publication, I'd be grateful if you could point me in the right direction.
Hi

The EU position is this.

The UK pays on the basis of the 2013 agreement which we signed and voted for.

This is the planned expenditure of the EU for its 7 year cycle.

It is known as the Multiannual Financial Framework.

There is no exact figure, as there a number of ways of calculating this.

The UK position is that we do not agree with this and should only pay our annual contributions until the date of leaving.

Even this is not straightforward as our rebate is calculated in arrears when the final costs are known.

We are insisting that any payments over and above our annual payments are linked to a Future Trade Deal and a transition period.

Why is there no final figure?

There are a number of ways of calculating our liability under the MFF.

The long boring bits are here.

http://bruegel.org/wp-content/upload...WP_2017_03.pdf

The figures vary greatly according to which methodology is chosen.

The EU has asked us to agree which methodology will be used, that genuinely is a matter for negotiation.

The UK response has been that there is no legal basis for the UK to pay anything.

The EU is saying, well you signed for it and even voted for it.

It is now a total impasse.

We have agreed to pay them something, how much we have not stated, but only if we get a transitional deal and a Trade Deal.

Neither the EU or UK is budging on this.

Both sides are convinced that they have a good legal claim.

If neither side blinks, the matter will go to International Court and will years to decide.

By that time we will be out with no deal.
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31-08-2017, 11:57 AM
17

Re: Barmier: "The EU will not move one millimetre"

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

The EU position is this.

The UK pays on the basis of the 2013 agreement which we signed and voted for.

This is the planned expenditure of the EU for its 7 year cycle.

It is known as the Multiannual Financial Framework.

There is no exact figure, as there a number of ways of calculating this.

The UK position is that we do not agree with this and should only pay our annual contributions until the date of leaving.

Even this is not straightforward as our rebate is calculated in arrears when the final costs are known.

We are insisting that any payments over and above our annual payments are linked to a Future Trade Deal and a transition period.

Why is there no final figure?

There are a number of ways of calculating our liability under the MFF.

The long boring bits are here.

http://bruegel.org/wp-content/upload...WP_2017_03.pdf

The figures vary greatly according to which methodology is chosen.

The EU has asked us to agree which methodology will be used, that genuinely is a matter for negotiation.

The UK response has been that there is no legal basis for the UK to pay anything.

The EU is saying, well you signed for it and even voted for it.

It is now a total impasse.

We have agreed to pay them something, how much we have not stated, but only if we get a transitional deal and a Trade Deal.

Neither the EU or UK is budging on this.

Both sides are convinced that they have a good legal claim.

If neither side blinks, the matter will go to International Court and will years to decide.

By that time we will be out with no deal.
Admittedly, it sounds very complicated.

I suspect that the EU negotiators want as much as they can get from us for two reasons:

1. They are losing a large source of contributions (the second largest after Germany, I believe) which will have to be made up by the remaining contributors (Germany, France, etc.), and to cut their losses they intend to screw us for as much as they can get away with. That is not our problem. After we leave, we stop paying our contributions. Why should we pay more than we are legally obliged to?

2. They want to punish us to the greatest extent they can in order to deter other countries from leaving!
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31-08-2017, 12:07 PM
18

Re: Barmier: "The EU will not move one millimetre"

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Admittedly, it sounds very complicated.

I suspect that the EU negotiators want as much as they can get from us for two reasons:

1. They are losing a large source of contributions (the second largest after Germany, I believe) which will have to be made up by the remaining contributors (Germany, France, etc.), and to cut their losses they intend to screw us for as much as they can get away with. That is not our problem. After we leave, we stop paying our contributions. Why should we pay more than we are legally obliged to?

2. They want to punish us to the greatest extent they can in order to deter other countries from leaving!
This


Meanwhile i am sure there is lots going on behind closed doors that we are not privy too.

Both in EU and World discussions, we are neither defenseless or toothless, and will forge new deals for our country. Change does seem to scare some, folks leading to doom and gloom forecasts.

Whatever occurs it wont be, me that makes the decisions in the end.
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31-08-2017, 12:17 PM
19

Re: Barmier: "The EU will not move one millimetre"

Originally Posted by Nom ->
This




Both in EU and World discussions, we are neither defenseless or toothless, and will forge new deals for our country.
Are you sure about that? I'm certainly not.
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31-08-2017, 12:26 PM
20

Re: Barmier: "The EU will not move one millimetre"

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Admittedly, it sounds very complicated.

I suspect that the EU negotiators want as much as they can get from us for two reasons:

1. They are losing a large source of contributions (the second largest after Germany, I believe) which will have to be made up by the remaining contributors (Germany, France, etc.), and to cut their losses they intend to screw us for as much as they can get away with. That is not our problem. After we leave, we stop paying our contributions. Why should we pay more than we are legally obliged to?

2. They want to punish us to the greatest extent they can in order to deter other countries from leaving!
Hi

Yes JBR, finally we can agree.

They are determined to get as much as they can to replace our Contributions.

That have already won this battle, sadly.

No deal on Banking Services, they are already £11 to £12 Billion ahead.

They are now after our Insurance Services , which is another few £Billion.

November is the cut off point for this.

The EU are absolutely ruthless.

They have backed down on the remaining obstacles to the EU Trade Deal with Japan.

No need now for any Japanese Company to invest further in the UK, as they face Tariffs.

A simple calculation by the EU, they have more to gain than they lose.

I find this all so sad.

It could have been so good for the UK.
 
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