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29-12-2016, 01:01 PM
101

Re: Petulant Zionist Israel.

Originally Posted by Uncle Joe ->
The United Nations Security Council is not a "mythical creature in the sky"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._for_Palestine
Who listens to the old women of the UN anyway?

Looking at that map can you imagine that the blue area (the Jewish area), being effectively split into three separate areas, could effectively defend itself from an expansionist arab area?

Well, they did and claimed the necessary land to make themselves defensible, and good for them I say. Even the present day Israel is absolutely tiny in land area compared to its muslim neighbours, and even then, the muslims would like to drive the Israelis into the sea.

If you believe that every culture in the world deserves to have its own homeland, then let them have a viable homeland. In fact, if you read the historical parts of the bible, it is quite clear that the Jews have lived in that part of the world for a very long time. What more appropriate location for their homeland?
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29-12-2016, 01:11 PM
102

Re: Petulant Zionist Israel.

Originally Posted by JBR ->
The people who live in Gaza effectively own the land in which they live. Israel is not and never has been 'their' land. Like all others of their kind, they just want more and more.

Anyway, bleating do-gooders in this country are not going to change anything. Israel has shown that it is well able to defend itself against mediaeval people, Israel cares not a jot what western do-gooders think and, more to the point, Israel still has the support of America.
A bit wrong JBR

The fact that Israel had not had a country of their own since the Romans kicked them out of the land of Israel. and replaced it with the province of Palestine. If you understand who Israel was it might help. They were then know as the Israelites, not Jews that came later.The first Roman/ Jewish war was in 66AD when the land belonged to Rome. How far back do you want to go ? It has never belonged to Israel until 1948 . Pretty recent in historical terms.

Palestine as a whole was carved up by the Brits and in 1948part was given to form the State of Israel.

In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948
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29-12-2016, 01:38 PM
103

Re: Petulant Zionist Israel.

Originally Posted by Puddle Duck ->
A bit wrong JBR

The fact that Israel had not had a country of their own since the Romans kicked them out of the land of Israel. and replaced it with the province of Palestine. If you understand who Israel was it might help. They were then know as the Israelites, not Jews that came later.The first Roman/ Jewish war was in 66AD when the land belonged to Rome. How far back do you want to go ? It has never belonged to Israel until 1948 . Pretty recent in historical terms.

Palestine as a whole was carved up by the Brits and in 1948part was given to form the State of Israel.

In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948
We can argue about the history of the place until the cows come home. Like most other parts of the world, ownership of land has passed from one tribe to another for ever.

The point is that it was agreed that the Jews deserved a homeland of their own and thus Israel was born. A defensible homeland could not possibly comprise several separate and isolated regions, each surrounded by people who are well known to be religiously opposed to you and your people and whose intention is to kick you out of your homeland.

The next argument is, assuming you are going to give a people their own homeland, should it be allowed to develop into a viable nation. I believe that decision was flawed and those who made it naively assumed that both Jews and muslims could live together peacefully in the same area. What made things worse for the Jews was that this area was completely surrounded by other predominantly muslim countries.

My opinion is that muslims resent a tiny corner of their would-be empire being handed over to their sworn enemies, the Jews. Tough. They've got it and you're not going to get it!
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29-12-2016, 01:44 PM
104

Re: Petulant Zionist Israel.

Israelites refers to people who lived in the land of Israel .
These were tribal people .
Various tribes inhabited various parts although most were normadic moving around the area
Jews were decendants from Judah the son of Jacob ( also known as Israel)
There has always been a Jewish presence in the area .

By your reckoning PD none of Palestine belongs to anyone .
Why then do the .' Palestinians ' not claim Syria , Jordan and Lebanon ?

Why do they only want the tiny bit that makes up the State of Israel?




9th century BC
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29-12-2016, 02:02 PM
105

Re: Petulant Zionist Israel.

Israel still has the support of America.


That remains to be seen.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.d2f77f42ceeb


On or around March 22 Trump gave a speech to AIPAC (which lobbies for Israel all through Congress and which has protected Israel from censure and made sure the US do whatever it takes to protect Israel)

In his speech he condemned Obama, staunch critic of Netanyahu's policies.

The audience, at first reluctant to listen to what they called a quasi fascist candidate, applauded the speech.

However the next day the Head of APAIC roundly condemned the audience for supporting Trump.

There appears to be some change of position within APAIC regarding the unconditional support it gives to Israel .

I have to say Muddy's telling of Eastern Mediterranean history is a tad lopsided but in fact it doesn't matter here...that is not the subject of this thread. We are where we are...after years of stealing water by diverting aquifers, bombing children, murdering Palestinian owners of land and farms, holding Palestinians in prison under what is called Administrative Detention (ie no trial, not release) , shutting power on and off at will, denying Palestinians a seaport or freedom to leave the country unless with a pass, destroying their homes and not allowing them to rebuild (a blockade on cement) the people of Palestine are a tad fed up.

They deserve their own state and the rest of the world agrees.
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29-12-2016, 02:07 PM
106

Re: Petulant Zionist Israel.

This is one of Gazas 5* hotels
There are several of them
It a wonder they could build them without concrete.
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29-12-2016, 02:12 PM
107

Re: Petulant Zionist Israel.

Why do they only want the tiny bit that makes up the State of Israel?

They don't particularly want it...they want Israel from destroying their lands.

YOU said Palestine belonged to no one when the other states became autonomous. In fact it "belonged" to the UK who was represented by Balfour who recognised that Israel never mentioned a border in its declaration of independence...but that he said clearly that Israel would be recognised IF the people presently living in Palestine were not challenged:...

His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.


Note that Balfour etc recognised the name "Palestine" as an identifiable place and that the civil rights of the people living there would not be prejudiced.
This was the condition upon which Israel was granted leave by the legal guardians of Palestine. However within the month Israel displaced over 600,000 people by military invasion from the rest of Palestine and stole their land and homes. They promised right of return but in fact Israel has "moved in' to Palestine. and has continued to "move into" Palestine in a way that makes it very difficult to reform a geographically united Palestine.
Israel already controls Gaza...it now wants to absorb the West Bank by putting settlers there.
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29-12-2016, 02:14 PM
108

Re: Petulant Zionist Israel.

Originally Posted by Muddy ->
This is one of Gazas 5* hotels
There are several of them
It a wonder they could build them without concrete.
The Israelis allow concrete when they can make a profit from it.

Not to the Palestinians for building a home.

and frankly why would Israel want to build a hotel in Gaza? Gaza does not belong to Israel!! They have no business building anything in Gaza.

BTW how do I know that is in Gaza? There is no reference. It could be anywhere.
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29-12-2016, 02:29 PM
109

Re: Petulant Zionist Israel.

Originally Posted by Muddy ->
By your reckoning PD none of Palestine belongs to anyone .
Why then do the .' Palestinians ' not claim Syria , Jordan and Lebanon ?

Why do they only want the tiny bit that makes up the State of Israel?

9th century BC


I think, if the truth be known, we all know the answer to that!
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29-12-2016, 02:35 PM
110

Re: Petulant Zionist Israel.

Originally Posted by Flicker ->
The Israelis allow concrete when they can make a profit from it.

Not to the Palestinians for building a home.

and frankly why would Israel want to build a hotel in Gaza? Gaza does not belong to Israel!! They have no business building anything in Gaza.

BTW how do I know that is in Gaza? There is no reference. It could be anywhere.
Planning your hols FIzzy?
It's the Arc med hotel Gaza
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_...City_Gaza.html
Have to warn you the pool is restricted for women so don't bother to take your cossie.

Who said anything about the Israelis building hotels?
Please concentrate and curb your urge to fantasise
Read what has been written .
They don't build hotels in Gaza because they are NOT IN GAZA.
Re building
Actually at this time 80 truck loads cement a day are allowed into the Gaza Strip.
It could have been more but then it was found that instead of using the cement to build houses for the sufferering populace it was being diverted into nasty tunnels into Israel .

Now what all this about profit ?
Aren't Jews allowed to make a profit ?
Just another little nasty dig .
How about killing babies to make their bread or is that to come later ?
 
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