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05-01-2018, 10:07 PM
31

Re: Thatcher

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Exactly.
I've said it before; the best PM we've had in my lifetime.
I'll second that JB.....
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05-01-2018, 10:08 PM
32

Re: Thatcher

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
Several people have said on here what a wonderful leader Thatcher was. Yet to me looking from afar she was a disaster for Britain.

Thatcher solved certain problems – high inflation, time lost to strikes, poor manufacturing productivity, but also created new problems. – Mass unemployment, rising inequality and a more fragmented society. It is also ironic that she came to power promising to solve inflation, but left power with an unnecessary inflationary boom, which led to another unnecessary recession of 1991. Other failures as a result of the Thatcher years:

  • The 1980s saw a return of mass unemployment – levels not seen since the 1930s.
  • Two recessions were caused by deliberate policies. Although inflation needed controlling in 1980, arguably the government deflated the economy too much – chasing money supply targets which were unreliable. The cost was unemployment and social disorder, which need not have been so deep.
  • Growth in north-south divide and regional inequality. Unemployment particularly affected former industrial areas; the government were slow to help deal with problems of structural unemployment.
  • The government deliberately allowed a boom and bust which caused an unnecessary and painful recession of 1991. For all Mrs Thatcher’s claims to see the importance of keeping inflation low. It was ironic; the government made such a mistake in allowing an inflationary bubble in the late 1980s. Part of the reason is that they really felt they had created a supply side miracle – which hadn’t actually occurred.
  • The rise in home-ownership was good for those who could buy but has increased wealth inequality in the UK. The supply of council homes is now at record lows because many were sold off.
  • A Large rise in inequality during the 1980s.
  • Financial deregulation of the 1980s laid the framework for credit bubble of 2000s and subsequent credit crisis. For example, privatized building societies like Northern Rock, and Bradford & Bingley pursued risky growth strategies which eventually needed government bailouts in the aftermath of the 2008 recession. Financial deregulation was good for some, but arguably created greater financial instability in the long-term.
  • Thatcher reduced the power of trades unions, but arguably at the cost of alienating many working class because of the fierce nature of her conflict.
  • Privatisation involved selling off state assets at an undervalued price. Many who could afford to buy shares, saw immediate gains. This was politically popular, but another missed opportunity to use nations resources to invest in the future.
  • Thatcher made little attempt to deal with environmental issues during a decade of increased concerns over global warming, pollution and environmental degradation.

At the same time, in Australia, the Hawke/Keating Government negotiated a pact with the Trade Unions called "The Prices and Incomes Accord" which led the way to major economic and industrial reform and benefits including

  • The first Accord secured for all workers a 4.3% pay rise (September 1983), a 4.1% pay rise (April 1984), and a deferred 2.6% pay rise over the initial 3-year period
  • Improvements in family payments and child care, and the introduction of Medicare.
  • Unemployment also fell from over 10% (in the 2nd quarter of 1983) to just under 8%.
  • The establishment of the Economic Planning Advisory council.
  • The introduction of the Tripartite Australian manufacturing council, together with other industry councils.
  • The introduction of a National Occupational Health and Safety Commission.
  • Increases in family income supplements for low-income families.
  • Targeted tax cuts for low-income and middle-income workers.
  • The introduction of various tax avoidance measures.
  • Increased pensions and unemployment benefits.
  • The fastest employment and economic growth in the OECD.
  • The introduction of various steel and vehicle industry plans.
  • Pay rises of 3.8% (November 1985) and 2.3% (1 July 1986).
  • The introduction of 3% award superannuation.
  • Cut to the top personal tax rate from 60 cents to 47 cents in the dollar.


Australia has not had a recession since that time. The difference in attitude and outcome between the two countries is staggering which is why it astounds me that Thatcher is even liked at all never mind highly regarded.
All very nice I suppose but the country still closes at 10 pm, even earlier if there is cricket being played, and all your prime ministers cry on national tv..
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05-01-2018, 10:11 PM
33

Re: Thatcher

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
Nearly fell off my chair reading it purwell. No achiements there.
At least half the population benefited Julie, when labour is in power nobody benefits.....
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05-01-2018, 10:12 PM
34

Re: Thatcher

Originally Posted by Purwell ->
Everyone tends to forget Northern Ireland, don't they?
Northern who?
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05-01-2018, 10:35 PM
35

Re: Thatcher

Originally Posted by OldGreyFox ->
Northern who?
Quite obvious that you are from Yorkshire.
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05-01-2018, 11:06 PM
36

Re: Thatcher

Originally Posted by Purwell ->
Everyone tends to forget Northern Ireland, don't they?
And the Spanish Inquisition....
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06-01-2018, 12:44 AM
37

Re: Thatcher

Originally Posted by Rainmaker ->
I think if you're going start to compare countries, then they should be countries of similar standing, the only thing we have in common, particularly these days, with Australia is the English language.
That's a fair comment but then how about Germany after reunification? They turned the country around to become the powerhouse of Europe surely?
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06-01-2018, 12:47 AM
38

Re: Thatcher

Originally Posted by CeeCee ->
This country is not "crowded", only 7% is inhabited. Therefore 93% is rural. It is a total myth about this country being full, perpetrated by the tabloid media.
It is an interesting fact that the entire human population of the planet would fit, as a loose crowd (say 1sq m per person), in North Yorkshire. Now, where is my five loaves and three fishes?
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06-01-2018, 12:50 AM
39

Re: Thatcher

Originally Posted by Realist ->
Thatcher's Achievements


The End Of The Cold War
I think it is stretching it a bit to claim the end of the Cold War was Thatcher's achievement.

As for the rest I think some of them would be hard to see as "achievements"
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06-01-2018, 03:39 AM
40

Re: Thatcher

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Exactly.
I've said it before; the best PM we've had in my lifetime.
Indeed that may be true but to be honest the competition was at best mediocre. Rather like saying malaria is better than typhoid (or the other way round?) but the others didn't destroy the very fabric of British society.
 
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