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Flicker
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10-12-2016, 12:34 PM
1

General Brexit discussion posts split from 'How did you vote thread'

Originally Posted by Older git View Post
I would still vote the same way. But I suspect there are some who might change-leaving will not bring about a new hospital every week,nor will it stop the the wars and refugees.

Or less immigration.

It will OTOH bring more austerity (already promised) , more poverty and far less investment in health and education unless the invisible international debt is sufficiently covered up.
Out of sight...but the next generation will suffer.

In fact when all is done, the won't be much difference to immigration or sovereignty. There will be to making life so much more difficult
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Meg
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10-12-2016, 02:15 PM
2

Re: General Brexit discussion posts split from 'How did you vote thread'

Originally Posted by Flicker View Post
Or less immigration.

It will OTOH bring more austerity (already promised) , more poverty and far less investment in health and education unless the invisible international debt is sufficiently covered up.
Out of sight...but the next generation will suffer.

In fact when all is done, the won't be much difference to immigration or sovereignty. There will be to making life so much more difficult
Who gives a dam if we will be rid of people with your attitude Flicker the epitome of the doom merchants who are panicking because they see the whole farce of the EU coming to an end ....

Roll on independence day
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Flicker
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10-12-2016, 02:47 PM
3

Re: General Brexit discussion posts split from 'How did you vote thread'

Originally Posted by Meg View Post
Who gives a dam if we will be rid of people with your attitude Flicker the epitome of the doom merchants who are panicking because they see the whole farce of the EU coming to an end ....

Roll on independence day
Are you always so personally rude?

That is the second time.

Do I not have the right to hold an opinion after years of teaching this stuff to sixth formers, holding debates with those kids who are far better at researching and thinking ahead to consequences and weighing up possibilities than I have generally found in a forum of over 50's?
Why do you think I care about what they think? You should try listening into some student discussions about this. They are well up on latest events, able to put them into historical context and understand the wider implications.

and they actually LOSTEN to each other.
I have now asked fouir times how you think the UK will make up the loss of a market of half a billion people.
The best answer I get is "we did OK before the EU."

When you mention that the world has changed rather significantly in 50 years I get stony silence.

Now I have a valid point of view amply backed up by research, cross referencing and logic. I am finding in this forum that it is antagonistic to being countered in a fair exchange of views and frankly for people of this age I am astonished. I have yet to see any real, factual, logical support for anything that is said in here. I get better with 20 year olds.

and further I get personally abused by the moderator.

I would be happy if someone countered my views with objective reason, links, proof and a fair assessment of the situation. Instead I get childish gang behaviour.

I have a view. It isn't yours but it is valid. and I am certainly not alone. I could immerse myself in all pro EU groups but I prefer to see YOUR side. Clearly the feeling is not mutual. You have no interest in what any other opinion might be.

and no you won't be rid of people who don't agree with you. You never will. Life is just not like that. and absolutely no one is panicking about anything because we actually LIVE in places you only see from a long way away and then not clearly because your rose coloured specs are fogging up.

So perhaps a bit of objective respect might be in order instead of sinking into the mudhole of personal abuse and rudeness which does precisely nothing for proper discussion.
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Meg
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10-12-2016, 03:12 PM
4

Re: General Brexit discussion posts split from 'How did you vote thread'

Originally Posted by Flicker View Post
Are you always so personally rude?

That is the second time.

Do I not have the right to hold an opinion after years of teaching this stuff to sixth formers, holding debates with those kids who are far better at researching and thinking ahead to consequences and weighing up possibilities than I have generally found in a forum of over 50's?
Why do you think I care about what they think? You should try listening into some student discussions about this. They are well up on latest events, able to put them into historical context and understand the wider implications.

and they actually LOSTEN to each other.
I have now asked fouir times how you think the UK will make up the loss of a market of half a billion people.
The best answer I get is "we did OK before the EU."

When you mention that the world has changed rather significantly in 50 years I get stony silence.

Now I have a valid point of view amply backed up by research, cross referencing and logic. I am finding in this forum that it is antagonistic to being countered in a fair exchange of views and frankly for people of this age I am astonished. I have yet to see any real, factual, logical support for anything that is said in here. I get better with 20 year olds.

and further I get personally abused by the moderator.

I would be happy if someone countered my views with objective reason, links, proof and a fair assessment of the situation. Instead I get childish gang behaviour.

I have a view. It isn't yours but it is valid. and I am certainly not alone. I could immerse myself in all pro EU groups but I prefer to see YOUR side. Clearly the feeling is not mutual. You have no interest in what any other opinion might be.

and no you won't be rid of people who don't agree with you. You never will. Life is just not like that. and absolutely no one is panicking about anything because we actually LIVE in places you only see from a long way away and then not clearly because your rose coloured specs are fogging up.

So perhaps a bit of objective respect might be in order instead of sinking into the mudhole of personal abuse and rudeness which does precisely nothing for proper discussion.
I don't have any time for people come on here with a condescending patronising overbearing attitude to members so you are wasting your breath on me (and many other members) Flicker
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Twink55
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10-12-2016, 03:22 PM
5

Re: General Brexit discussion posts split from 'How did you vote thread'

Originally Posted by Flicker View Post
Are you always so personally rude?

That is the second time.

Do I not have the right to hold an opinion after years of teaching this stuff to sixth formers, holding debates with those kids who are far better at researching and thinking ahead to consequences and weighing up possibilities than I have generally found in a forum of over 50's?
Why do you think I care about what they think? You should try listening into some student discussions about this. They are well up on latest events, able to put them into historical context and understand the wider implications.

and they actually LOSTEN to each other.
I have now asked fouir times how you think the UK will make up the loss of a market of half a billion people.
The best answer I get is "we did OK before the EU."

When you mention that the world has changed rather significantly in 50 years I get stony silence.

Now I have a valid point of view amply backed up by research, cross referencing and logic. I am finding in this forum that it is antagonistic to being countered in a fair exchange of views and frankly for people of this age I am astonished. I have yet to see any real, factual, logical support for anything that is said in here. I get better with 20 year olds.

and further I get personally abused by the moderator.

I would be happy if someone countered my views with objective reason, links, proof and a fair assessment of the situation. Instead I get childish gang behaviour.

I have a view. It isn't yours but it is valid. and I am certainly not alone. I could immerse myself in all pro EU groups but I prefer to see YOUR side. Clearly the feeling is not mutual. You have no interest in what any other opinion might be.

and no you won't be rid of people who don't agree with you. You never will. Life is just not like that. and absolutely no one is panicking about anything because we actually LIVE in places you only see from a long way away and then not clearly because your rose coloured specs are fogging up.

So perhaps a bit of objective respect might be in order instead of sinking into the mudhole of personal abuse and rudeness which does precisely nothing for proper discussion.
I was taught a lot in the 6th form, but experience has taught me more, so what I learned there has no influence over my political opinions now.

If you find this forum so unsatisfactory, we always leave the door open for those who wish to leave, but we will not be guided by those who don't like it and wish to change the way we hold our discussions!

I do not believe our moderator was being personally rude but, if you think she was, I would suggest you read through the many criticisms you have made about this forum and the people that use it. We are all expressing our opinions, and there are no rules that say we must back them up with internet links... which are , after all, only somebody else's opinions.

We discuss many different topics on here and, if you have only one topic to discuss, there should be no surprise that people are fed up of hearing it. The referendum was a democratic vote to leave, so most people are happy to let the government sort the legal problems and then deal with the outcome...... arguing on here will change nothing!
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marmaduke
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10-12-2016, 03:28 PM
6

Re: General Brexit discussion posts split from 'How did you vote thread'

Firstly as Junkers himself has said , the eu will within 10 years be far smaller trade wise .... he himself admits that point saying so....
He tries to make the point that we're better still to remain united as he believes to split and become independent countries again would be even worse , that even as a collective voice we will become smaller but as a solo nation one would fail even more so .

So even junker admits we're on a downward slope .



My thinking against this is why would I wish to remain in a FAILING co operative that even the (badly ) ruling elite admit is going to get worse, to be dragging the likes of Albania and Estonia along for the ride ..... fighting with 27 other nations for any decisions ..... taking the eu's unemployed ,Angela's new found mates and their European born offspring as the eu turns Islamic more daily ...... or cut the strings now and take a chance on our own ????



The eu is sinking ship , a dumping ground for the Arab spring and without any real ideas on anything anymore .....

I'm happier in my own lifeboat with my own crew with my own elected captain
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Morticia
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10-12-2016, 03:42 PM
7

Re: General Brexit discussion posts split from 'How did you vote thread'

Originally Posted by Flicker View Post
Are you always so personally rude?

...... to sixth formers, holding debates with those kids who are far better at researching and thinking ahead to consequences and weighing up possibilities than I have generally found in a forum of over 50's?

and they actually LOSTEN to each other.

I get better with 20 year olds.
I'm LOSTENING Flicker....
Some of your typos are more interesting and mentally challenging that your actual posts.
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Flicker
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France
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10-12-2016, 03:52 PM
8

Re: General Brexit discussion posts split from 'How did you vote thread'

Originally Posted by Meg View Post
I don't have any time for people come on here with a condescending patronising overbearing attitude to members so you are wasting your breath on me (and many other members) Flicker
I hadn't realised that you are the sole decider of who is a member and who isn't.

Any feelings of being overborne are from you who its herself there.

If I thought you weren't worth discussing with I assure you I would not still be here.

I am very sorry you feel that running with the crowd and being popular is worth being rude for. Is your self confidence so low that you have to be popular instead of objective and realising that there are too sides to every issue?
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Morticia
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10-12-2016, 04:00 PM
9

Re: General Brexit discussion posts split from 'How did you vote thread'

Oh give it a rest flicker ... playing the injured martyr doesn't suit you.
If you weren't so rude, antagonistic and patronising yourself it wouldn't detract from the fact that you do make some good points ... if it were discussion you were really after, and not just to bludgeon everyone over the head with your views and expect everyone to nod like a dumb donkey to massage your ego.
I admit, initially, before battle lines were drawn (by you) I quite enjoyed your posts.
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Flicker
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Flicker is offline
France
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Posts: 1,071
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10-12-2016, 04:02 PM
10

Re: General Brexit discussion posts split from 'How did you vote thread'

Originally Posted by Twink55 View Post
I was taught a lot in the 6th form, but experience has taught me more, so what I learned there has no influence over my political opinions now.

If you find this forum so unsatisfactory, we always leave the door open for those who wish to leave, but we will not be guided by those who don't like it and wish to change the way we hold our discussions!

I do not believe our moderator was being personally rude but, if you think she was, I would suggest you read through the many criticisms you have made about this forum and the people that use it. We are all expressing our opinions, and there are no rules that say we must back them up with internet links... which are , after all, only somebody else's opinions.

We discuss many different topics on here and, if you have only one topic to discuss, there should be no surprise that people are fed up of hearing it. The referendum was a democratic vote to leave, so most people are happy to let the government sort the legal problems and then deal with the outcome...... arguing on here will change nothing!

1) I have absolutely no wish to change anyone's political position. I do however enjoy a proper mature exchange of views.

2) I have no complain about how you run your discussions. I do however draw the line at those who are rude, personally abusive and condescending.
If you do not wish to have a discussion about Brexit why don't you just call th is part of the forum The Brexit Appreciation Society and All Dissenters are Unwelcome...ie forget freedom of speech...you can only be in here if you want too join the cheering gallery.
3) links may be opinion...many are facts.
and I would really appreciate it if you would point out where I have criticised (as opposed to disagreed with) those in here. If I had felt critical I would not waste my time being here. Disagreeing is not being critical. It is Discussing.
4) I have many subjects to discuss and do so in other parts of this site. That you only read this one is not giving a proper evaluation.
Finally I thought you didn't like experts. Now you at leaving it all to them.
I happen to be interested in the process since this is the first time in history something like his has happened and the constitutional legacy is very important.
I give very little time to the result...I care about the process and the future.
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