24-01-2017, 12:53 AM
1
Babies and Dogs
I wasn't quite sure where to put this thread . .It is rather long, so I will try and stick to the relevant bits.
"While the law can be fairly clear in terms of liability and punishment regarding dog attacks, it does not help to prevent such attacks in the first place.
There are very stiff penalties, but it does not prevent incidents, it just punishes after the event.
Vet, behaviourist and expert witness on fatal dog bites, Kendal Shepherd, is totally frustrated by the lack of forensic examinations of these cases.
Ever since the death of Ellie Lawrenson in 2005, these events have only ever been investigated in order to find someone to blame and prosecute. They have never been conducted primarily to look at causes first, and only later blame, if blame is to be found.
11 years on and we are still using the same punishment-based approach. Despite society's need for vengeance being satisfied, what is most likely to be preventative - the jailing of those held responsible, or urgent release of all factors which cause a death?
We will never understand what happens fully in these cases because we always kill the dog and ask questions later.
These things happen to white, middle-class wage-earning parents with respectable jobs, even they can make the mistake of not shutting a door between dog and baby.
Star of Channel 4's "Rescue dogs to Super Dogs" Jo-Rosie Haffenden is only a few weeks away from giving birth to her first child, and she was fascinated to see whether her health visitor would mention anything about her FOUR dogs.
Being a top trainer, she has been preparing her dogs for the birth for some time.
When the health visitor arrived, Jo took her 10 year old Doberman out to the gate with her to welcome the lady.
During conversation, Jo mentioned that she had 3 other dogs as well.
The health visitor said she "wasn't very doggy". This NHS visitor asked plenty of questions about how her and her partner would cope, and what had they done to prepare for the new baby, she talked about feeding, sleeping and various other guidance, but when Jo asked her if she would like to meet the other 3 dogs - the visitor declined.
Right at the end of the visit, Jo asked the visitor if she minded if she asked her some questions about how health visitors operate, their training and such.
Jo then explained what she did for a living and how much she valued the visitors insight.
It turned out the health visitor received no training or guidance whatsoever about dogs and babies, and only asked owners to ensure the CAT is not able to sleep on the baby.
She said they did a lot of training about preventing accidents, but dogs were never covered.
Jo then asked what she was advised to do if she saw a dog she had concerns about and was told she was just ask the parents to 'put it away.'
Jo then asked if she was particularly worried, was there anyone who could go and assess the dog. The visitor explained that they are trained only to recommend NHS-approved services and there is nothing like that available.
Joe asked whether she was concerned that some parents would not be able to spot that an animal may need some preparation for a new baby, but the visitor admitted that not being a 'doggy person' it had never crossed her mind."
So after all that, does it not make sense for perhaps one health visitor per area to be a specialist? Then if a health visitor is concerned about a particular situation, she has specialist back-up to call in for assessment and guidance for the parents?
Jo finishes up by saying - "The ultimate responsibility should lie with the risk-assessment agencies that sit with the NHS and these guys currently offer no literature or any guidance whatsoever for new parents that cohabit with pets."
The National Animal Welfare Trust is currently working on a leaflet that is aimed at new parents and their immediate families - Baby steps Around Your Dog -
which will show how to prepare a dog for the new arrival, and to understand how the dog will be affected and how to spot early behaviour signals through pictorial references.
About time too? How many times is a new baby brought home and the dog is just expected to know and understand how to behave?
24-01-2017, 08:44 AM
2
Re: Babies and Dogs
Very interesting, Mups, and of deep concern!! It worries the life out of me when I see photos and videos posted, especially on FB, of a parent holding a baby with a huge dog in its face.Now as you know I love dogs. I also love babies. But you're right, the parent/guardian expects the dog to know how to behave, but who the heck trains THEM?? (The humans.)
I can imagine the comments. 'Nah, he's so gentle, wouldn't hurt a fly'... 'They'll be fine together...' 'I've had my dog from a pup, I know what're like...'
Etc etc etc.
I agree, more education is needed, to dog owners, parents, and HCPs, to prevent any more of these awful tragedies happening in future, or to lessen the risk.
24-01-2017, 09:37 AM
5
Re: Babies and Dogs
I've no idea how we can actually prevent some attacks, my first experience was when I was about five so I may have misunderstood, but for my small perspective a neighbour had a large white bear, it's obvious now it was a Great Pyrenees lovely dog, gentle with me, I loved that boy he played all my games. One hot afternoon, very hot the neighbours new grandson was brought to see them. Tiny baby big lungs !Anyway they put the baby in a pram and they were big solid prays in those days, I was across the road with the dog, sitting playing with my dolls, every so often the giant would rise and bring me another doll of clothes, seemed to love the game as much as me. We heard the baby start to cry and his ears went up and he loped across the road and round the back of his house, next we heard was screaming and crying like I've never heard before, my grandad was up and across the road to see what had happened and the dog had killed the baby. Just took if out of the pram and shook it.
That beautiful soft gentle dog I believe thought it was another doll, paid the ultimate price with his own life. The neighbours lost their grandchild and their daughter she never spoke to them again.
Looking back yes it could have been done different but no one had any clue it could have happened, a cooler day, me not teaching him to play dolls, baby not put outside, just not visit someone with a dog ? All sorts of things may have saved that baby.
But I really don't blame the dog or the owners they brought that dog up in love and kindness, so much so it was a lovely companion for a lonely child. It made a mistake it wasn't vicious.
Sometime sh1t happens, it just does.
That's not to excuse idiots with obviously unknown dogs leaving kids alone with them, or training dogs to attack people then wondering why it kills their child.
24-01-2017, 09:44 AM
6
Re: Babies and Dogs
Originally Posted by Julie1962
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I've no idea how we can actually prevent some attacks, my first experience was when I was about five so I may have misunderstood, but for my small perspective a neighbour had a large white bear, it's obvious now it was a Great Pyrenees lovely dog, gentle with me, I loved that boy he played all my games. One hot afternoon, very hot the neighbours new grandson was brought to see them. Tiny baby big lungs !Anyway they put the baby in a pram and they were big solid prays in those days, I was across the road with the dog, sitting playing with my dolls, every so often the giant would rise and bring me another doll of clothes, seemed to love the game as much as me. We heard the baby start to cry and his ears went up and he loped across the road and round the back of his house, next we heard was screaming and crying like I've never heard before, my grandad was up and across the road to see what had happened and the dog had killed the baby. Just took if out of the pram and shook it.
That beautiful soft gentle dog I believe thought it was another doll, paid the ultimate price with his own life. The neighbours lost their grandchild and their daughter she never spoke to them again.
Looking back yes it could have been done different but no one had any clue it could have happened, a cooler day, me not teaching him to play dolls, baby not put outside, just not visit someone with a dog ? All sorts of things may have saved that baby.
But I really don't blame the dog or the owners they brought that dog up in love and kindness, so much so it was a lovely companion for a lonely child. It made a mistake it wasn't vicious.
Sometime sh1t happens, it just does.
That's not to excuse idiots with obviously unknown dogs leaving kids alone with them, or training dogs to attack people then wondering why it kills their child.
24-01-2017, 10:01 AM
8
Re: Babies and Dogs
What a terrible thing to happen julie . I had dogs for 16 yrs , cavalier king Charles , yet I would never have allowed children to be alone with them , they were so soft and cuddly but I always remembered they were dogs . A friends child came to see us one day and reached down to cuddle queenie and she growled . I was and still am aware that dogs can turn . In fact I never touch a strange dog I take a long time to get to know them . I also get worried if I'm with my granchildren and a dog comes towards us off the lead , my daughter tells me I'm passing on anxiety to the girls which I guess I am , but I honestly think it's better to be cautious.24-01-2017, 10:02 AM
9
Re: Babies and Dogs
Originally Posted by Julie1962
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I can understand that t but that doesn't address the problem does it ?
They should not be permitted in family areas.
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