26-02-2021, 04:11 PM
91
Re: Misled Over Brexit ? Certainly Looks That way !
Originally Posted by Zaphod
->
Oh dear.
https://www.google.co.uk
-> " UK macine tool manufacturer" and press "search".
Pages and pages of 'em.
Every one British - although the odd googly pops up as is typical of Google.
Presumably the moaner has never heard of BAE, doesn't realise that the UK leads the world in auto technology which is why most Formula One teams are based here or that our specialist auto industries are globally respected, or accept that our space satellite industry is among the world leaders?
The UK is the world's 9th largest manufacturing nation.
Given that we are #21 by population, that's not bad.
There's room for improvement certainly, but suggesting that we are no more than a nation of "shopkeepers and insurance salesmen" displays a remarkable ignorance which flies in the face of facts.
If you dig into the M/C Tool companies listed there Zaph, you will
find that they are not manufacturers at all, but importers who stick
labels on! Just like our fridges and computers etc. !!
BAE that you mention is what remains of our arms industry and is
only a shadow of its former self?
You say we are the ninth largest manufacturing nation in the worldl?
Can you name something that we produce??
For instance, we couldn't even produce the ppe crap we needed
recently ! What could be simpler ??
Gawd elp us if banks collapse again !!
Swimmy is quite correct, we are unable to build and maintain our
power stations anymore due to lack of SKILLS mainly and to the
lack of equipment large enough to handle the job, this due to
selling off most of our existing stuff to third world countries and
not replacing it with more moder nstuff .
When l say skills, l don't mean knowing how to work a computer or
Knowing how to fill in a form .
Donkeyman! 👎🤔🤔👎
26-02-2021, 04:40 PM
92
Re: Misled Over Brexit ? Certainly Looks That way !
Originally Posted by JBR
->
Incidentally, Wilson and Callaghan destroyed more coal mines than Maggie did. It is also suggested that Scargill's activities caused more mine closures than Maggie did!
Several years ago I had this self-same discussion/argument with a socialist on another forum. I even went as far as digging (please excuse the pun
) into the NCB's on-line database to look at the figures. These showed that more mines (2x more?) closed during the Wilson/Callaghan years than during Thatcher's time as PM. In any case, none of the PM's were responsible for the mine closures, it was purely down to economics - the mines were either mined out or just too expensive to extract any more coal from. I had occasion to revisit the NCB's and the coal miners' union websites fairly recently and couldn't find these data on either of them any more.
26-02-2021, 05:23 PM
93
Re: Misled Over Brexit ? Certainly Looks That way !
Originally Posted by Donkeyman
->
If you dig into the M/C Tool companies listed there Zaph, you will find that they are not manufacturers at all, but importers who stick
labels on!
One of the very first entries: "BSA Tools - British manufacturing of Machine Tools & Lathes"
Originally Posted by Donkeyman
->
You say we are the ninth largest manufacturing nation in the worldl?
No, I spread the word not make the words up.
"UK remains in top ten manufacturing nations at ninth place"
https://www.makeuk.org/insights/publ...-facts-2019-20
It gets better if you could be bothered to take your blinkers off and look.
"Sage: Britain to become world’s 5th largest manufacturer by 2021"
https://www.manufacturingglobal.com/...ufacturer-2021
Is there really any point in my telling you what we make when you steadfastly refuse to accept that can make anything?
Go look for yourself.
Again: I'm not saying that the UK is perfect or that there's not room for improvement, but your negativity and denial here just displays your ignorance as to the facts.
Here's a list of the UK's top exports in 2020 - a year of global upset, remember.
Look at #1: "Machinery including computers: US$60.4 billion (15% of total exports).
http://www.worldstopexports.com/unit...s-top-exports/
ETA
Oh & BTW re: power stations you might like to improve your knowledge there too by looking into Rolls Royce's plans for SMR's and the 16 mini plants already planned for the UK, with production on target to begin within ten years.
Another fantastic British innovation!
26-02-2021, 05:56 PM
94
Re: Misled Over Brexit ? Certainly Looks That way !
Originally Posted by Percy Vere
->
Absolutely 100% spot on.Several years ago I had this self-same discussion/argument with a socialist on another forum. I even went as far as digging (please excuse the pun
) into the NCB's on-line database to look at the figures. These showed that more mines (2x more?) closed during the Wilson/Callaghan years than during Thatcher's time as PM. In any case, none of the PM's were responsible for the mine closures, it was purely down to economics - the mines were either mined out or just too expensive to extract any more coal from. I had occasion to revisit the NCB's and the coal miners' union websites fairly recently and couldn't find these data on either of them any more.
Unfortunately, as was so often the case in 'the Age of the Strikes', no-one benefited from them; neither the owners nor the workers. A low point in our history when left and right fought each other even more fiercely than they do today.
Will we ever learn?
We could be like the Germans where management and unions have learnt to work together for the common good. Everyone is happy and the country has benefited from being the industrial capital of Europe - a crown that we once possessed!
26-02-2021, 06:16 PM
95
Re: Misled Over Brexit ? Certainly Looks That way !
Originally Posted by JBR
->
Yes, this is very true. Unfortunately the unions didn't like to accept that and the result was a series of strikes, infamously led by Arthur Scargill.Unfortunately, as was so often the case in 'the Age of the Strikes', no-one benefited from them; neither the owners nor the workers. A low point in our history when left and right fought each other even more fiercely than they do today.
Will we ever learn?
We could be like the Germans where management and unions have learnt to work together for the common good. Everyone is happy and the country has benefited from being the industrial capital of Europe - a crown that we once possessed!
The unions forced a lot of striking workers into working overtime for months (years even) to make up losses in earnings while they were on strike a a pay rise in pennies.
The unions never looked after the workers only the union bosses
26-02-2021, 06:24 PM
96
Re: Misled Over Brexit ? Certainly Looks That way !
Originally Posted by Zaphod
->
Do give over.I don't have to convince anyone because (as I keep trying to tell you) it is up to the electorate.
They will decide - and it's them that you're upset with really.
We have reagined our sovereignty but as I keep pointing out to you: you do not like what we are doing with it.
What really is laughable is your determination not to see what every sensible person sees, and that is why you have no answer to this:
The consequences of where we are at regarding Brexit has very little to do with Remainers or Brexiteers.
It has to do with the British people and with what they want.
They would rather be able to afford their VW cars, their Miele washing mashines and their Belgian chocolate than worry about fish that they don't even eat.
They would rather see UK workers in jobs supplying cars, technology and plane parts to the EU than pay tariffs on imports of the cars, washing machines and chocolate they want to buy.
When you can answer in a sensible and realistic manner the question of what you would rather see and how you would answer the consequences of your demands to the people above you might have a case.
So far, despite pages of obfuscation, you have not.
(P.S.:
If I'm on "ignore", how come you are still quibbling away?)
In your case I've explained at least 6 times now. If you keep resorting to searching on Google for your answers it's inevitable you will run out of them and you can't come up with any of your own, so your replies go all over the place as I've pointed out.
Your celebrating failure and making things up.
Here are some more people that disagree with you
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/brexit-f...estoft-7391118
26-02-2021, 06:45 PM
97
Re: Misled Over Brexit ? Certainly Looks That way !
Originally Posted by Bread
->
The unions forced a lot of striking workers into working overtime for months (years even) to make up losses in earnings while they were on strike a a pay rise in pennies.The unions never looked after the workers only the union bosses
Trade unions were an essential protection for workers in the early days of the 20th Century, hence the establishment and rise of the Labour party.
Later, certainly after the Second World War, there could have been agreements like what I mentioned earlier. The Germans did it, so why couldn't we?
I hesitate to blame the unions alone. It could be that the business owners were equally guilty. I'm afraid I don't have the evidence to suggest who, if anyone, was at fault exclusively.
26-02-2021, 07:08 PM
98
Re: Misled Over Brexit ? Certainly Looks That way !
Originally Posted by Bread
->
In your case I've explained at least 6 times now.
No you haven't, you have explained nothing and that is why I keep asking.
Saying you have done something no matter how many times you say it does not mean that you have actually done it.
You haven't.
Every single reader of this thread will see that too.
So yet again (and rather than keep seeing more of your obfuscation) answer this, from post#65 and again referenced in your own quote:
No comment upon the issue at hand then?
What would you rather: people care about fishing or that as now they care about the things I have shown you - and how would you reconcile the differences and persuade the country that what they want doesn't matter?
You're like the opposition in the Commons; full of grumbles about what's happening but with not even one iota of a clue of how to resolve the issues.
BTW - why am I not on your "ignore" list as you keep saying I am?
But please, just this once answer the question above first.
Ta muchly.
26-02-2021, 07:44 PM
99
Re: Misled Over Brexit ? Certainly Looks That way !
Originally Posted by Zaphod
->
No you haven't, you have explained nothing and that is why I keep asking.
Saying you have done something no matter how many times you say it does not mean that you have actually done it.
You haven't.
Every single reader of this thread will see that too.
So yet again (and rather than keep seeing more of your obfuscation) answer this, from post#65 and again referenced in your own quote:
No comment upon the issue at hand then?
What would you rather: people care about fishing or that as now they care about the things I have shown you - and how would you reconcile the differences and persuade the country that what they want doesn't matter?
You're like the opposition in the Commons; full of grumbles about what's happening but with not even one iota of a clue of how to resolve the issues.
BTW - why am I not on your "ignore" list as you keep saying I am?
But please, just this once answer the question above first.
Ta muchly.
People care about both people voted for taking back control and sovereignty not 70% and a border down the Irish Sea.
I think that's about 6 times now I've answered you.
Your problem is you don't understand any of this your just throwing googled up quotes around.
Your way our of your depth and your arguments are all over the place. I've also told you many times how to solve this but as usual you won't listen or won't read things properly
Your solution is to do nothing and sell out the fishing induustry because they are stupid and deserve all they get. Some small compensation might be for them to by a new golf without tarrifs eh ?
I take it this is what you voted for ... you and nobody else
26-02-2021, 08:03 PM
100
Re: Misled Over Brexit ? Certainly Looks That way !
Originally Posted by JBR
->
I agree.Trade unions were an essential protection for workers in the early days of the 20th Century, hence the establishment and rise of the Labour party.
Later, certainly after the Second World War, there could have been agreements like what I mentioned earlier. The Germans did it, so why couldn't we?
I hesitate to blame the unions alone. It could be that the business owners were equally guilty. I'm afraid I don't have the evidence to suggest who, if anyone, was at fault exclusively.
And l totally agree on why Germany could do it, but we failed !!
Donkeyman! 🤔🤔
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