31-08-2013, 04:54 PM
201
Re: Syria - US ships move in!
Originally Posted by Uncle Joe
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Cameron stuffed!!!In a vote in the House of Commons last night, Cameron lost the vote to take us into a war against the Syrian regime!!!
31-08-2013, 04:58 PM
202
Re: Syria - US ships move in!
Originally Posted by MKJ
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Why the mad rush to get all this sorted before all the evidence had been gathered and gone over? Definitely seems that Cameron had other things on his mind.
31-08-2013, 05:00 PM
203
Re: Syria - US ships move in!
Originally Posted by plantman
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I worry about anyone that thinks four days of cruise missile attacks will bring peace and happiness back to a country, after the missile attacks themselves will have killed hundreds or thousands more innocent civilians. I doubt you could cite me a single example of when this strategy has worked, anywhere in the world.It's OK for you being gung-ho whilst thousands of miles away, but personally I think anyone who advocates that course of action should be on the ground with the populace, looking up at the missiles raining down and saying "fear not people, for these are American.."
31-08-2013, 05:01 PM
204
Re: Syria - US ships move in!
Originally Posted by Uncle Joe
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Yes Audrey and we could equally have said the same in WW2 - took the Americans more than two years and an attack on Pearl Harbour by the Japanese before the Americans committed themselves to the war.
31-08-2013, 05:05 PM
205
Re: Syria - US ships move in!
Originally Posted by plantman
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Why do you think that Arthur, at least he laid out the deal fairly and honestly and let Parliament have it's say, which is a damned sight more than Blair did when he took us into Iraq. Aren't you pleased the vote went the way it did? Isn't that real democracy in action? What did he actually do wrong to deserve demands to resign, other than to take the decision by the Commons on the chin?
DC is that weak he was hoping this would make him the statesman he would like to be, but he hasn't a cat in bells chance.
Look I am not a Blair fan never have been, but I would rather him than anybody from the other side.
Blair took us to war because he was duped by Bush, Blair put it to the house and they went with it, it wasn't Blair dictating at all, and everybody knows that.
31-08-2013, 06:21 PM
206
Re: Syria - US ships move in!
Originally Posted by Wrinkly
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Because he is a weak PM. losing a vote like that usually brings a vote of no confidence, and just like Geoff said he thought it was stitched before he came to the hose, I bet his heart was in his mouth when the result came in.DC is that weak he was hoping this would make him the statesman he would like to be, but he hasn't a cat in bells chance.
Look I am not a Blair fan never have been, but I would rather him than anybody from the other side.
Blair took us to war because he was duped by Bush, Blair put it to the house and they went with it, it wasn't Blair dictating at all, and everybody knows that.
As for your old mate Blair, there can only be you in the entire country that believes he didn't lie through his teeth before the Commons vote on Iraq. He is, without doubt, the biggest warmonger of recent times, and the irony of making him Middle East Peace Envoy I still find mind blowing in it's stupidity. For goodness sake he was even advocating attacking Syria this week, what sort of peace envoy does that...a crazy old world indeed..
01-09-2013, 09:46 AM
207
Re: Syria - US ships move in!
Originally Posted by plantman
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You are right Arthur, but he was completely stitched up by that duplicitous half wit Milliband and that is why he shouldn't lose his job over this issue. He was actually doing the right thing putting forward his beliefs to the House, laying out the facts honestly and letting the Commons have a vote. Now make no mistake I have no love for Cameron and agree with you that he is weak, but on this occasion I must say that he was absolutely knifed in the back by a pathetic weasel of a self serving left wing low life who had previously given his agreement to the terms of the vote. I would find it impossible to blame the victim of such treachery, as Milliband should have made his true intentions known beforehand but chose to play as dirty politics as possible. Now there is a man that is an absolute disgrace, and even Labour should be thoroughly ashamed of him. It is he that should go, how can anyone now ever trust his word ever again..."Right Honourable", don't make me laugh.As for your old mate Blair, there can only be you in the entire country that believes he didn't lie through his teeth before the Commons vote on Iraq. He is, without doubt, the biggest warmonger of recent times, and the irony of making him Middle East Peace Envoy I still find mind blowing in it's stupidity. For goodness sake he was even advocating attacking Syria this week, what sort of peace envoy does that...a crazy old world indeed..
It wasn't Milliband that was duplicitous Barry, but Cameron's own back-bench. Milliband made it perfectly clear to Cameron days before the vote that the Labour Party would not be voting with the Tories. Three, yes THREE Tory Cabinet Ministers managed to miss the vote entirely and THIRTY Tory backbenchers voted with the opposition. I note from your own comments that you have failed to even mention this. The Tory whips were at fault in not ensuring the Thee Ministers were present when the division bell was rung and for failing to appreciate that there would be such a strong opposition from their own ranks. Would you condemn them in the same terms as you have Milliband for either missing entirely or voting with the opposition???
01-09-2013, 10:06 AM
208
Re: Syria - US ships move in!
Originally Posted by Uncle Joe
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It wasn't Milliband that was duplicitous Barry, but Cameron's own back-bench. Milliband made it perfectly clear to Cameron days before the vote that the Labour Party would not be voting with the Tories. Three, yes THREE Tory Cabinet Ministers managed to miss the vote entirely and THIRTY Tory backbenchers voted with the opposition. I note from your own comments that you have failed to even mention this. The Tory whips were at fault in not ensuring the Thee Ministers were present when the division bell was rung and for failing to appreciate that there would be such a strong opposition from their own ranks. Would you condemn them in the same terms as you have Milliband for either missing entirely or voting with the opposition???
However Geoff, you are right about the conservative non-voters but they wouldn't have made a difference as it happened. It is my opinion that Cameron was well shafted deliberately by Milliband, as up to the day of the recall Cameron had the tacit agreement of Milliband that he would back the Government in the vote. When Milliband changed his mind later it was too late for Cameron to change course, and Milliband should be absolutely ashamed of his actions regardless of the outcome. As I said before, "Right Honourable"? it's a joke...
01-09-2013, 10:19 AM
209
Re: Syria - US ships move in!
Originally Posted by plantman
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Let me reply by first stating that I am pleased Parliament voted against this inane notion, and I do believe that Cameron made many misjudgements in this affair and was wrong to take the side of America over Syria, but should he resign over being out-manoevered in the Commons? No, I think not. Maybe it will make him a better Prime Minister now that he can no longer take the country or Parliament for granted!However Geoff, you are right about the conservative non-voters but they wouldn't have made a difference as it happened. It is my opinion that Cameron was well shafted deliberately by Milliband, as up to the day of the recall Cameron had the tacit agreement of Milliband that he would back the Government in the vote. When Milliband changed his mind later it was too late for Cameron to change course, and Milliband should be absolutely ashamed of his actions regardless of the outcome. As I said before, "Right Honourable"? it's a joke...
No Barry you are again wrong. As I explained in my previous comments, Milliband was opposed to Cameron's resolution and had tabled his own amendment to it, so therefore Cameron was aware, at very least 24 hours before the vote was scheduled that he did not have the support of Milliband and the Labour Party. Furthermore, the majority for the vote was but 13 votes. Had Cameron's own whips been efficient (as sadly they were not) they would have ensured thew presence of the missing three Cabinet Ministers and whipped in the thirty odd backbenchers who had voted with the opposition. None of this was in any way remotely the fault of Milliband, but lies entirely at the door of Cameron himself, who not only misjudged the will of the people, but also the will of Parliament too - for that alone he has failed dismally and whilst not a resignation issue per se, because his authority both as Prime Minister and Leader of the Tory Party is now severely damaged he should perhaps seriously consider resignation.
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