Re: Referendum to blame for ill feeling towards immigrants?
Originally Posted by
MKJ
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But according to all the diehard EU remainers it was
No not so, it was just a minority set of "remainers" kicking out that propaganda for their own agenda which the media pushed hard to help influence a nation that they had made a bad decision and one not based on a desire to leave the EU. i.e. propaganda for the rest of the EU to think "Oh ok, they don't mind the EU at all, they're all just racists who are against immigration making a point . . . so the EU is ok, and we don't need a referendum of our own"
Originally Posted by
MKJ
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and I kinda agree with them.
Then you fell for the propaganda and media conditioning. You really should be getting more savvy to this by now imo.
Originally Posted by
MKJ
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What is pushing the anti EU buttons all across Europe is immigration.
No it is not. You're simply looking for answers where they do not exist. I shall try once more.
The anti-EU sentiment is strong because the European COMMUNITY has now morphed into a highly political European UNION which is all set to become an all-powerful federal state, a United States Of Europe if you like. In doing so it's treaties contain clauses which hint strongly that the EU is going to replace the justice systems of EU countries with its own central justice system. It wants to enforce the disastrous Euro as the sole currency and has already agrred in treaties that EU members MUST support its aims and objectives. Those treaties also suggest that the EU will likely take control of the armies and weaponry of each EU member state which includes the UK forces and our nuclear weapons, and disband the sovereignty of each country and eradicate the actual concept of an individual country having a national identity. Equally they suggest that it will disband Westminster and the UK parliament which means no political parties (Lib-Lab-Con) and thus no general elections.
If this had played out you & I would not have a vote in anything meaningful and worse still, ok UK MEP's representing the UK in the EU would only have 29 votes out of a total of 352 total votes and thus would never ever be able to achieve and reform or change in the EU or it's laws and regulations. The UK as a country would have been completely destroyed, utterly and forever, which was surely one of the aims of the EU moguls.
NONE of the above is in any way even remotely connected to the immigration issue. It is about the UK being sold down the river to an almost totalitarian federal state which once achieved we could never escape from. The UK people have valiantly pulled out at the last hurdle before it was too late.
I'm not sure which part of the above you can't take on board, but that's how it is.
Originally Posted by
MKJ
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When you think about it it all boils down to immigration - right across Europe. Nothing else comes close to it.
Again this is nonsense. It's not immigration.
Originally Posted by
MKJ
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Every argument regarding leaving the EU is intrinsically linked to immigration. Therefore 'immigration' is the sole problem with regard to the voters across all of Europe. There isn't any other other concern that can generate such social unrest.
And again, immigration is not the cause of the troubles.
Many EU countries have experienced massive debt crises which are nothing to do with immigration. Some have had to be bailed out (at our [UK taxpayers] loss), and those bailouts always come with lots of "conditions" in the small print, conditions which lead to massive austerity that hits people hard.
Greece
"Greece became the centre of Europe’s debt crisis after Wall Street imploded in 2008. With global financial markets still reeling, Greece announced in October 2009 that it had been understating its deficit figures for years, raising alarms about the soundness of Greek finances.
Suddenly, Greece was shut out from borrowing in the financial markets. By the spring of 2010, it was veering toward bankruptcy, which threatened to set off a new financial crisis.
To avert calamity, the so-called troika — the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and the European Commission — issued the first of two international bailouts for Greece, which would eventually total more than €240 billion.
The bailouts came with conditions. Lenders imposed harsh austerity terms, requiring deep budget cuts and steep tax increases. They also required Greece to overhaul its economy by streamlining the government, ending tax evasion and making Greece an easier place to do business."
Source:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...euro.html?_r=0
Portugal
"The Great Recession in Portugal led to the country being unable to repay or refinance its government debt without the assistance of third parties. To prevent an insolvency situation in the debt crisis Portugal applied for bail-out programs and has drawn a cumulated €79.0 billion (as of November 2014) from the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the European Financial Stabilisation Mechanism (EFSM), and the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF)"
Spain
"before 2008 Spain's government was one of the least spendthrift in the eurozone - unlike Greece. Or Germany.
The Spanish government's debts were a mere 36% of its gross domestic product (GDP) (the output of its economy) in 2007, while the German government's were 65%.
What's more, Madrid was in the process of paying its debts off - it earned more in tax revenues than its total spending . In contrast, Berlin regularly broke the maximum annual borrowing level laid down in the Maastricht Treaty of 3% of GDP.
Evidently, this crisis has nothing to do with the recklessness of Spain's government.
Instead, it was other people in Spain who behaved recklessly.
Interest rates fell to historic lows when the euro was launched in 1999. So Spain's banks, property developers and ordinary home-buyers collectively borrowed and fuelled an enormous property bubble.
Between 1996 and 2007, Spanish property prices tripled - comparable to the price rises seen in the UK.
Now the bubble has popped. Those prices are steadily falling - and they look like they have a lot further to go.
The construction industry has collapsed, leaving hundreds of thousands out of work. Over-indebted home-owners face financial misery and have cut back on spending. And the banks are staring at a mounting pile of bad mortgage debts.
"
Ireland
"Due to the Great Recession, a number of Irish financial institutions faced almost imminent collapse due to insolvency. In response, the Irish government instigated a €64 billion euro bank bailout. This then led to a number of unexpected revelations about the business affairs of some banks and business people. Ultimately, added onto the deepening recession in the country, the bank bailout was the primary reason for the Irish government requiring IMF assistance in 2010."
In summary the Euro as a single currency for a multitude of differing countries has been an abject failure.
Being a member of the EU has been like parents being forced to take responsibility for 30 new children, many of whom are hopeless gamblers and wasters getting into huge debt that we are then obliged to bailout.
Each country that is driven to a debt crisis and bailout situation ends up having to make "deals" with the EU which doubtless ensure and cement the future totalitarian control of those countries by an all-powerful federal United States Of Europe.
The "peoples" are being sold down the river in all of these global exchanges and are the ones who will suffer.