Re: Africa

No - not burying my head in the sand here Jonsey - I always air my views on most subjects (as many on this forum know). You perhaps don't realise it, but I am trying hard to be polite to you and not get cross. I said it is not my intention or necessity to persuade or influence a change of view in someone who obviously holds a strong and opposing opinion. You sweepingly say Africans are lazy and don't help themselves - I think the whole issue of some parts of Africa is far more complicated and have other views. Even though we may have some opinions in common, it has become obvious to me fairly early on that we have to agree to disagree on this one. - If that is OK with you, of course !!!!

Re: Africa

Clumsy,

I can only say I completely agree with every word you say, a few years ago my youngest son took a 'sabatical" from work for nearly a year and walked and hitched his way around parts of Africa, well off the tourists trail, and he was horrified at the state and the corruption of what he saw.

Re: Africa

I could tell you tales of container loads of equipment for schools, donated by well meaning people, arriving at Mombasa port, being delivered to the local agent's premises, unloaded then later that night you would see it being loaded up again ready to sell and line various pockets, some of these pockets were the aid/charity workers themselves. You truly do have to literally live among these people to see what actually goes on.

Re: Africa

Yes, it's a fact, you can not ever get across to people who have never lived and worked in these countries how deep and widespread the corruption is.

For seven years my job required me to live and work in many African countries, usually between two and three months on each trip. I had meetings at all levels, ministers, prime ministers, even a President on one occassion. All of them wanted some form of 'back hander'

Re: Africa

Backhanders or "kitu kidogo" are a very unfortunate way of life in Africa, something small, by which they mean at least £50, and that's just for local tradesmen and police, never mind the "higher ups" who of course demand megga money. Then of course there is the relative problem, give someone a job and pay them a few shillings, that person suddenly finds he/she has relatives he/she has never heard of, aunties, uncles, cousins, all wanting to share his/her shillings, it really is amazing just how many people turn up, news travels very fast indeed in Africa.

Re: Africa

As long as one isn't rude, crude or abusive, I would think getting angry / heated about a subject, any subject, shows you have clearly defined feelings about that subject and will show your feelings in the strongest way possible, and to my mind, that is the only way to be.

You seem to be hung up on the word "lazy" that I used, perhaps --- "lacks the work ethic" --- might be more to the point, and as far as helping themselves, I should say, "lack the inability to help themselves" --- Thats's if it is ok with you --of course !!!!!

Re: Africa

Not hung up on the word "lazy" at all Jonsey and if you want to say "lack the inability to help themselves" go ahead.

Re: Africa

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh its always the same when one starts to lose an arguement --- they nit pick >>>>>>>>>> I can't find the smiliies to show I am joking.

Re: Africa

The one thing that ALWAYS pops into my mind every time there's yet another human crisis in Africa is that as far back as I can remember, this has been the case in Africa.

As far as I'm aware we having been sending money and aid in various forms for at least 50 years yet absolutely nothing seems to have changed.

Being a logical type of person it leads me to think that if this approach is so obviously ineffective, there's another solution somewhere that WILL work.
Perhaps we or they do not wish to see that?

To me, past history, colonisation, colonialism in general or past "plundering" by foreign powers if you prefer have all impinged on Africa's problems and these days big business is still screwing African countries for everything that they can get
The one thing that you have to bear in mind is the history of Western Civilisation - just how long it took before we got to where we are today.
In African terms it's only a few years by comparison.

Surely we're just seeing a condensed version of what our progress was over centuries and it all takes time.

Being a gardener that's the one thing you always have to remember - everything takes its own time, which is why non-gardeners always seem to think that transforming a bare patch of earth into a lush, productive mini-Eden is almost instantaneous!
It isn't!
And neither is the birth and growth of a nation! stevmk2

Re: Africa

Could be wrong here but I thought China was a country who only allowed two children and look at them now,maybe something to do with communism! If wrong I apologise.