Re: Jerusalem

I don't make inflammatory posts Muddy. I say what I think not what someone wants me to say.

Re: Jerusalem

Which Palestinian government ?
Not the Hamas one and they govern some two million people .



Peace has always been on the table it getting the Palestinians to come to the table that is the problem .
When have they put forward a peace plan ?
( second time of asking as usual it won't be answered )



You will find that the Arabs were also offered their own state alongside Israel .....they refused and chose war.....which they lost .

But it didn't worry the 'international community' ( who are this mysterious entity ) when they were 'occupied ' by Jordan for 19 years ?
19 years in which Jews and Christians were restricted from visiting their holy sites ?

Jerusalem doesn't need to be 'internationally controlled ' it's doing very well under the governance of Israel .
Otherwise tourists such as yourself would be unable to go their and visit in relative safety and comfort.

Re: Jerusalem

Yes Annie you do make inflammatory posts when you make utterly stupid personal comments like the one you did.

It's not the sort of comment one would wish to see on a friendly social website supposedly from a mature adult .

It added no value to the debate and was intended to offend

In fact it was throughly uncalled for and rude .

Re: Jerusalem

Correct. I'd trust Putin and Russia in many respects. Should you bother to read back (quite a long way in various threads) you'll see why.


Yes.


No, not all Palestinians. Again, if you bother to read many of my earlier posts you will see that I have always maintained that there are good and bad in all religious cultures.

However, I should mention that Israelis don't do the things in Muddy's list. The ones who do are muslims (though not all) because they are in their religious teachings - the Religion of Peace!

I'll explain this only once more, as I'm getting fed up with having to explain it time and again. The present borders of Israel (including Jerusalem) are there as a result of surrounding Arab states attacking the despised Jews ever since the state of Israel was founded, and Israel responding in kind and driving back the aggressors. The Arabs were stupid enough to do it, and they've got what they deserved.

Now, tiring of this pointless thread, I shall remove myself from it. I have made my opinions perfectly clear and see absolutely no point in continuing to debate them with the 'three witches', who offer nothing constructive but repetitive arguments.

Re: Jerusalem

Let's assume the thick-skinned one can get over their sudden fit of paper thin skin and resume with the discussion can we?

Do Israel have the right to a State of their own?
Prior to the holocaust they were only ever encouraged to migrate back to the ME ... with no allocation of any territory or State whatsoever . Hence Zionist terrorism in the region flourished.
Yes! They murdered and killed innocents too when they were fighting for a place of their own.

Yet I don't believe every single Jew supported those methods. The UN stepped in, in what I consider to be a legacy of the Holocaust and 'gave' them the State of Israel. They partitioned Palestine to do it.
No wonder there has been strife ever since.

It's far too blinkered and biased to cite massive lists of crimes against homosexuals and throwing folk off rooftops etc etc .. and at ad nauseum , I might add ... as if every single Palestinian, and there are about 5 million of them,
are all itching and desperate to don a suicide vest and rush out and kill an Israeli.
That has to be discussion at it's most primitive level.

Re: Jerusalem

Christian pilgrims were allowed to visit holy sites in East Jerusalem during the Jordanian annexation. Their numbers were restricted but they were not denied entry. Britain recognised Jordanian annexation of the West Bank. Having the holy sites area of Jerusalem under international control makes sense given the history.

As I've said, the Palestinian authorities are moving towards a more peaceful strategy and are trying to unite the various factions to move with them. Hamas appear to be warming to the idea but are not on board yet. It's only when they unite and pursue peace and if Israel agree that they can sit around a table again. So it will be down to the right leaders and the right political environment both in the area and in the rest of the world.

Re: Jerusalem

Seeing as we have just been talking about Jordan persecution of homosexuality is certainly not their policy. It's legal there. It's probably the most liberal Islamic country in the Middle East.

Re: Jerusalem

Tut tut ... your aggravation or trolling ability is showing. Nor can you count.

Having said that .. I'm glad to see you clarified your view on one matter. It's been a long time coming, nor have you yet said what you think of Netanyahu's 2015 election pledge that there would be no Palestinian State during his term of office.

So you approve of the acquisition of land through war and conquest? It's a view. Spoils of war to the victor.

But it really is not that simple JBR. It breeds more hostility.
Israel have exceeded the allocated boundaries of their territory and there is no way 'occupied land' should become Israeli land by moving Israeli settlers onto it ..and formally annexing it.
It's called land grab.

Does that mean Saddam should have kept what he'd won of Kuwait? His to keep?
No, it didn't. A coalition of Western Allies went in and shoved him out. Why didn't they do that in the case of the Israeli's land encroachment, restoring it back to the original State of Israel boundaries?
Would Palestinians feel somewhat better and less threatened if they were offered some protection against the Israelis? A UN Peacekeeping force instead of the IDF on patrol and manning checkpoints, at least until it was sorted out through negotiation and diplomatic means.

Another example ... Israel are currently more heavily engaged in airstrikes in Syria ... allegedly chasing after their foe, the Iranians. Bombing them. Reducing their military capability.
They've even warned Assad off retaliating. It's Assad's country whatever anyone thinks of him. The Iranians, like the Russians, are there at Assad's invitation.
Perhaps one could argue that Israel can fly over Syrian air space bombing Iranians ... let's face it, the international community seem to do the same, albeit with a difference.
It was supposedly to deal with Isis, a common global foe not a regional war between two hostile neighbours.

Why don't Israel attack Iran directly?
Why do you think that is?
And were Iran ever to attack Israel in retaliation what then?
Would you expect, even demand, that the international community wade in on the Israeli's side?
Or .. stick with your view that war is war and whatever one side wins against the other, or whatever damage is inflicted is okay ... because it's the spoils of war awarded to the victor.

If one day Iran attack Israel.
One has to remember that Israel are currently provoking and already attacking Iran.

Re: Jerusalem

Intermission from Debate.
Apologies. I can't resist.

annie we won we won we won annie we won!!!!

( Original copyright holder. Gumbud. Yesterday 12.09 PM.)
Yes ... I nicked it. Spoils of war.

Re: Jerusalem

What a stupid comment.