Re: Cesar Millan (split from Barbara Woodhouse thread )

Of course you can disagree Muddy and just because you do so I won't make any silly assumptions .

Re: Cesar Millan (split from Barbara Woodhouse thread )

Thank you.

Re: Cesar Millan (split from Barbara Woodhouse thread )

I don't think there is anything in my posts that is unnecessary Muddy, I don't abhor anyone putting forward a valid argument .

Re: Cesar Millan (split from Barbara Woodhouse thread )

There is a dog trainer who has a way with dogs. He has a show on TV called The Dog Whisperer. He helps those who have dogs that are hard to control. In many cases in just 5 minutes he is able to change a dog's negative actions to positive ones.

Pit bulls are very aggressive dogs. He emphasizes that its not the dog thats agressive but the handler. He makes a good point, but with Pit Bulls you never know what might set them off

Re: Cesar Millan (split from Barbara Woodhouse thread )

I think the sad, and often unacknowledged fact is that the vast majority of those putting themselves out there as dog trainers (or even more trendily "dog behaviourists") are ineffective and sometimes dangerous charlatans who don't actually have a clue about dogs or dog behaviour.
Whether they are "old school" followers of Woodhouse/Milan etc, or "up to date" followers of the current "positive reinforcement" models, they are often equally useless.
Dogs are like people - there is no "one-size-fits-all" training regime which will work for all dogs. As for the "modern" methods, far from being modern, they are usually based on BF Skinner's long outdated "Operant Conditioning" theories which are so mechanistic as to be laughable.

As an example, we once picked up a husky from an elderly lady who said she could not control it. It pulled on the lead so hard that she had fallen several times. Her back garden had a perfect circular mud path trodden into the lawn where the poor dog was walking round and round in circles day after day after day. Over a period of three years, she had paid out well over £3500 to a variety of "registered" and "authorised" and "qualified" trainers - none of who had any success with training this dog not to pull on the lead. My wife took 15 minutes to train him. When we rehomed him a couple of weeks later (after his assessment period) his new owners were amazed at how well he walked on lead. All it took was someone who knew the breed inside out and knew which buttons to press to get the right results. The dog has now been in his new home for five years and still only pulls when the owners want him to (ie running in harness).

Re: Cesar Millan (split from Barbara Woodhouse thread )

Well said Mick
You have highlighted a major problem
the elderly lady and the husky
Under exercised and bored out of its tree!
Now there are elderly ladies and elderly ladies .
probably the elderly lady would have had the same lack of success with the husky when she was 20!
Some people should not have dogs or at least should pick dogs more suited to their life style.
and some would be hard pressed to keep a gold fish in order much less a dog!
well done your wife !

Re: Cesar Millan (split from Barbara Woodhouse thread )

I agree mick one size never fits all.

Re: Cesar Millan (split from Barbara Woodhouse thread )

I think that is so Mike but if I suggest anything to anyone it won't be a trainer who fills a dog with fear. That is very difficult to train out later.

I had a women who bought a Cocker to me which was destined to be put down because she was afraid it would bite her children. I asked for a history and apparently she had been following a book which told her to remove the dog's food when it was eating. They did so and when it growled hit it with a newspaper and ended up with a dog which guarded its food possessively so much so no one could go in the room when it was eating. It also became aggressive when it saw a newspaper . She left the dog with me and I re trained it over a number of weeks and it went to a new home.

People see so called trainers like Millan on the TV/in books and try to emulate them doing untold harm in some cases.

Re: Cesar Millan (split from Barbara Woodhouse thread )

I always teach dogs NOT to be protective of their food .
This is best done when they are small puppies .
When its easy to touch them and yes sometimes take the food and then replace it.
So many children are bitten walking innocently by a dogs food.
this is not something i have learned form Ceasr Milan !
It was the way i have always brought up dogs and having three children none of which have ever been bitten by any of our dogs .
Dogs which came mostly form rescue homes where some had bitten people.
The pit bull i had for two weeks recently i touched and stroked when it was eating i was careful and saw first how it would react
Only a few times and soon it was eating and wagging its tail when i touched it.
This is NOT something i would advise everyone to do .
BTW it has settled nicely in its new home
a dear little dog.

It may be seen on practical all dog programmes including the Dog Whisperer the advice if in dount not to do it at home without the presence of a dog professional ( which basically means someone who knows how to handle dogs )

Re: Cesar Millan (split from Barbara Woodhouse thread )

I've seen this treatment recommended too, Meg. Not at all surprised at the results. I wouldn't like my dinner constantly pinched either! This stupid 'dominance' thing is so wrong, but it is still how some people train unfortunately.

I also believe you are right that some people do try to copy someone else. They haven't sufficient interest to try and understand why they have a problem in the first place, nor to explore appropriate methods of sorting it out.