Re: Statins

There is a reasonably easy to understand account of how we got to the current position here Cholesterol & heart disease – there is a relationship, but it’s not what you think
When you actually look at what happens in practice it's relatively easy to see who has the greatest risk of dying from CVD


and those lines showing that people with the lowest Total Cholesterol die soonest are even steeper when you look at all cause mortality statistics.


The images come from the article I've provided a link to so more details there about where the stats come from.
But the simple message is that Cholesterol is a natural substance your body creates for a purpose and preventing your body making cholesterol shortens your life and increases your risk of dying from all causes and even increases your risk of dying from heart disease, the very reason most people are persuaded to use statins.

Re: Statins

Diet plays a very big part in the levels of cholesterol in the human body, and the diet of the Norwegians is high in fish.
It has been a known fact for years that people round the world who have this sort of diet have the lowest C.V.D. in the world.
So I would say the chart is not helpful to the likes of us with our diet, it seems to have been conducted using smokers and non-smokers more than the food we eat, but thanks for showing it.
I don't know whether this sort of survey has been done on our diet, but then again our diets vary from person to person.

Re: Statins

I get told so many things with ref to Cholesterol levels ...I am Diabetic T2 ...my cholesterol was 5.8 on diagnosis ...i was put on simvastatin which dropped it to 3.8...when i got symptoms from the statin i came off it totally for a year ...my cholesterol went up to 4.5 and i was told it was to high ...they tried statins again over the next year which again caused me massive side effects , so once again i threw them out ...I am now on ezetimibe ...so far no probs ......so what do you believe ......

Re: Statins

But back in 1997 when Ancel Keys the author of the Lipid Hypothesis was saying, "There's no connection whatsoever between cholesterol in food and cholesterol in blood. And we've known that all along. Cholesterol in the diet doesn't matter at all unless you happen to be a chicken or a rabbit." Ancel Keys, Ph.D., professor emeritus at the University of Minnesota 1997."
We knew there was no connection between dietary cholesterol can plasma cholesterol.

The low fat/low cholesterol diet is ineffective
The commonly-held belief that the best diet for prevention of coronary heart disease is a low saturated fat, low cholesterol diet is not supported by the available evidence from clinical trials. In primary prevention, such diets do not reduce the risk of myocardial infarction or coronary or all-cause mortality. Cost-benefit analyses of the extensive primary prevention programmes, which are at present vigorously supported by Governments, Health Departments and health educationalists, are urgently required.
Similarly, diets focused exclusively on reduction of saturated fats and cholesterol are relatively ineffective for secondary prevention and should be abandoned.


It is absolutely true that diets that are high in fish oil are protective for CVD and are in fact far more effective than statins.
Effects of n-3 fatty acids on major cardiovascular events in statin users and non-users with a history of myocardial infarction So if you have had a Heart Attack (myocardial infarction MI) these are the only group for whom there is evidence Statins may be helpful which group had the lowest incidence of a major cardiovascular event over the 7 years of the trial?
Omega 3 groups 9%
Statin users 13%
Statin plus omega 3 users 15%
Placebo 18%
So if you know someone who has had a heart attack would they be safer using omega 3 400mg+2g ALA or a statin?

Now perhaps if you were aware that only a small fraction of the omega 3 in ALA is converted to EPA and an insignficant amount ever gets to DHA, would you think that maybe Dr Davis's suggestion to use 3000mg~6000mg of EPA & DHA from high strength fish oils may indeed be a much safer option than any of those suggested in this trial. Bear in mind Dr Davis recommends this in conjunction with 6000iu/daily vitamin D3, ample magnesium and the use of Niacin.

The point is that we have known for the last 25yrs that low fat diets don't work and that saturated fat is not dangerous. We should not permit people to repeat these myths.

Re: Statins

It depends whether you want to end your life early or if you want to live longer.
I prefer to stay alive.
Look at the evidence and THINK FOR YOURSELF.
Association between serum cholesterol and noncardiovascular mortality in older age
This study looked at the NON CVD death rate in 5,750 Adults aged 55 to 99 over nearly 14yrs.
They found each 1-mmol/L increase in total cholesterol was associated with an approximately 12% lower risk of noncardiovascular mortality this becomes MORE significant after the age of 65 and increases in magnitude across each subsequent decade.
They conclude
Higher total cholesterol was associated with a lower risk of noncardiovascular mortality in older adults. This association varied across the late-life span and was stronger in older age groups. Further research is required to examine the mechanisms underlying this association.

Do you want to increase or decrease your risk of mortality (dying)?
If you want to die sooner then lower your cholesterol by taking a statin.
If you want to die later then you need to keep your cholesterol in the sweet spot between the lowest risk of CVD and the lowest risk of ALL CAUSE DEATH.
The recent research papers I've linked to earlier in this thread are confirming what we already know.
the best range of TC that one can be at is somewhere between 210,= 5.44 where cardiovascular disease mortality is minimized; and 220= 5.70 , where total mortality is minimized.
That there is a cholesterol sweet spot below and above which depending on your age and sex all cause mortality (and most people don't die of heart disease) is lowest.
Total cholesterol and cardiovascular disease: A U-curve relationship

Remember this is based on data collect prior to 2005 and the more recent paper s (from Norway and Belguim not that different from UK) are suggesting the safer numbers may be even higher.
For most people going under 5.44 = 210 is certainly going to shorten your life.
It's not that difficult to map your current cholesterol number on the graph and decide whether going lower will help or whether raising your TC will be better?

Re: Statins

Ted Huchinson, the fact that you didn't bother to introduce yourself as most new members do but instead posted a number of long quotes with links lead me believe you might be a spammer so I did a Google search and I found someone with your name and location posting similar posts (including the graphs )on numerous sites. I note this person/ salesman/spammer has been banned from a number of sites, are you this person?
Meg.

Re: Statins

Why do you regard posting links to scientific evidence as the equivalent of spamming?

I always post in my own name because I am proud of the accuracy of the science based information I provide.

I am regularly banned from sites for posting science based information.
There are a lot of people who don't like being confronted by the facts. I'm sure most people here do not want to be lied to. I'm sure most people who get to be over 50 can't stand people who don't tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That's why I'm proud always that I refuse to be bullied and refuse to compromise the truth.

I don't suffer fools kindly either.

Re: Statins

Ahhhhhhhh I was 'told off' for stopping my statins...I had strokes on my optic nerves which has somewhat affected my eyesight ...i was told i needed to lower my cholesterol to between 3-4 as this was a sign off cardio vascular decease or risk my eyesight and health....what do i do ...die or go blind lol

Re: Statins

Well there are science based alternatives that may keep your doctors happy and improve not only your eyesight but also lower your lipid profile.

Flaxseed dietary fibers lower cholesterol and increase fecal fat excretion,

A meta-analysis of randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials for the effects of garlic on serum lipid profiles.Overall, garlic was superior to placebo in reducing serum total cholesterol (TC) and triglyceride (TG) levels serum TC and TG levels in the garlic group were reduced by 0.28 mmol and 0.13 mmol respectively.
The effects of garlic were more striking in subjects with long-term intervention and higher baseline TC levels.

Lipid-Lowering Effects of Time-Released Garlic Powder Tablets in Double-Blinded Placebo-Controlled Randomized StudyTime Release garlic supplement reduced total cholesterol levels by 7.6% and 11.5% more than the placebo. The LDL (“bad”) cholesterol fell by almost 14%. The participants HDL (“good”) cholesterol rose by almost 12%. The dosage found to be most effective was 600 mg a day.

Influence of body mass index and serum lipids on the cholesterol-lowering effects of almonds Full text

Study Suggests Long-Term Almond Consumption Supports Weight Maintenance Explanation of above average, daily almond supplementation was 52 g (or nearly 2 ounces).

I think I posted a link to the omega 3/LDL research earlier.
So you can change your lipid profile, reduce the bad cholesterol and improve the good cholesterol in ways that would keep you alive and your doctors happy.

Re: Statins

Hi Ted,

I think it's nice to see someone share some of my concerns about 'conventional medicine'. But just a quick note to say the reason Meg suspected you as a spammer is because you came in posting lots of links - something that often raises alarm bells - I know people often ask for citation when posting claims, but perhaps it's something worth bearing in mind in future when joining other forums?

With regards to some of your points, I too am a big supporter of:

• Garlic
• Linseeds
• Omega 3 oils

All of which I have on a daily basis.

I also think there are better ways to reduce bad cholesterol (I say bad because there is good and bad cholesterol). Changing to a healthy diet, without all the artificial crap, 'bad' oils and sweet/sugary things would be the first thing I do if I ever found myself if such a situation.