Re: Statins

That simply isn't the case.
We can all write down the foods we have eaten today.
We can make reasonable estimates of the weight of those foods.
We can enter those details into a
Nutrititional database and see what vitamins and mineral they provide.
We can compare that with the Recommended Daily Amounts that are "officially" provided and work out if we are in practice meeting the RDA for those minerals and vitamins.
We don't need a test to apply common sense.
Here is an example

Magnesium RDA
You may find it easier to use a Magnesium calculator This is just an example there are others online.

It is no good relying on TESTS to identify magnesium deficiency. Magnesium is required for over 300 different enzyme actions and without magnesium you cannot function.
Magnesium is required to counterbalance the actions of calcium, it's a natural calcium channel blocker.
Calcium is used to tense every muscle fibre to initiate action and MAGNESIUM is used to relax that muscle fibre.
Calcium is used to excite every brain neuron to stimulate every brain action and magnesium is used to calm that neurone.
It follows that your body HAS to drag magnesium out of your bones in order to keep you alive and functioning. 98% of our magnesium should be stored in bones, so those bones have to be raided to keep you going. Only when those skeleton deposits have been virtually exhausted will the plasma magnesium tests show magnesium deficiency status. Most people reading this will be getting just half their daily magnesium RDA. So will be raiding their bones on a daily basis. This won't show up on tests because they only show deficiency after the stored reserves have all been emptied by which time it's too late and your diabetic or have a had a stroke

With out adequate magnesium in relation to your calcium uptake from the diet people become tense and edgy.
Therefore it's common sense to check if your daily intake of magnesium actually matches the magnesium RDA and to improve your food sources or use magnesium supplements to make up the difference.

Calcium RDA


Calculate my calcium example of calcium calculator There are plenty of others.

Are you sure about that?
Isn't it more likely that your dietician will only provide information that is within the consensus current opinion?
As it is easy to demonstrate the since dieticians have been giving dietary advice the obese population are growing ever more obese, the diabetic population is getting larger year on year, Dieticians are responsible for the rise in cancer and the rise in Dementia. It is because people act like gullible fools and refuse to check for themselves the information they are provided with by health professionals that we are in the current situation.
Rely on Dieticians at your peril.
Use your own common sense.

Take Vitamin D for example. We all know that full body sun exposure produces 10,000iu in just a few minutes midday nonburning FULL BODY summer sun exposure. Your health professionals will try to persuade you that only a mere fraction of this is all your body actually needs, yet the evidence is always that those with higher vitamin D status live longer less painful lives with less chronic illness.

Hopefully some here are smart enough to see what is going on.
There's none so blind as those whose mortgage income and financial well-being depends on them not seeing the obvious and that applies to health professionals as well as bankers.

Re: Statins

Rena
For example, an orthopaedic surgeon could not attempt the work of a neurosurgeon - a dentist would not be a clinical psychiatrist (if you get my drift). So whilst lay people may pick up knowledge by reading the work of others, it is not wise take at face value every paper written, or to claim from it a great deal of practical expertise and try to apply the knowledge gained with any degree of discrimination to individuals across the board.
Ted
But there are common factors that underlie disease initiation and progression and someone looking from the outside rather than from the perspective of an insider, with vested interests in promoting their own medical speciality, may be better able to see the connections.
Once you understand the role of inflammation and oxidation you have the key to answering many of the underlying problems. It's very easy for specialists not to see the wood for the trees.
Rena
I don’t believe it has Ted - everything taught and applied these days in health care has to be evidence based.
Ted but everything that is taught relies on the consensus of medical opinion and that inevitably lags behind the research. Look at the recent evidence on statins increase heart disease and all cause death rates. It will be 30years before that gets into the text books and that will be far too late for the readers here.


Rena
I understand what you are saying and I personally believe there is no easier way to lose weight than by reducing intake and maintaining a balanced diet comprised of nutrients tailored to an individual’s requirements and medical needs.
Ted

If it was easy to reduce weight by reducing intake we would have no obesity epidemic.
What you are suggesting has been current policy for 30years and look where it has got us.
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results."
Rena
If you have individual medical problems it is sensible to seek a GP referral and take advantage of the expertise of a clinical dietitian‘s knowledge and training.
Ted And the research that backs up the work of dieticians and GP's is remarkable in it's absence. If GP's and Dieticians were any good they would do themselves out of a job.
Just look at obesity among health professionals.
Laughable that any sane person takes them seriously.


Rena(probably because - he has put on some weight and not been as active lately). The GP didn’t automatically
Ted What happens when people get older to their ability to create melatonin and vitamin D?

Have a look at the role of melatonin and vitamin D in obesity and glucose metabolism. Weight gain and lethargy are symptoms of metabolic dsyfunction but not the cause of it. You are looking at the problem from the wrong perspective. You need to understand what cause people to lose control of their appetite and what causes them to become lethargic.

If you mix up symptoms with cause you will never get to solve the problem.

Rena
MS is not a common chronic condition. It is complex and variable in its nature and progression - if it were simply chronic it would be much easier to help sufferers.
Ted
but the same range of issues regarding the onset and progression of MS also underlie the onset and progression of Alzheimer's and diabetes.
Why can't sensible people see the connections and work towards preventing or eliminating those common factors associated with these conditions?

Rena
I am sorry to hear of the problems you live with Ted, but I am pleased to know you are not against taking necessary medication.
Ted
Indeed it's good to be able to do without antibiotics, pain medication, hay fever treatments, blood pressure pills, anti depressants, viagra, etc etc. It's sad that most people my age have an increasing list of regularly prescribed medications.
17.1 prescription items per head of population were dispensed in 2009
I'd rather you took my share of that.

RenaWhat we think we understand is constantly changing and developing - our medical knowledge is not written in tablets of stone.
Ted Indeed it's the case that the more I learn the more I need to discover. But the basics are simple common sense.
If your body NATURALLY wants to create large amounts of vitamin d when given the chance, should you prevent that happening?
If your body is set to create melatonin given a drop in light intensity at night, what are the consequences of preventing that happening?
If we know how to prevent the consequences of melatonin and vitamin d deficiency where is the evidence that modern health professionals using evidence based research actually put that into practice and use effective amount of effective forms of melatonin or vitamin d3.
It's is simply perpetuating myths that modern doctors practice evidence based medicine.
They don't they are the pawns and puppets of the drug industry and never put patients best interests first.

Re: Statins

I am afraid that this discussion has left me way behind.... figures numbers graphs charts etc ......one thing i do know is if the powers that be want to they will make 2+2=5 and prove it..they will even convince you that Tuesday is Monday.....
This is my chart ...
simvastatin 40mg 1 twice a day = debilitating and crippling agonising muscular pains and spasms ....
conclusion ...Don't take it
I rest my case......

Re: Statins

That is important and sensible BUT there are plenty of women who think that taking statins actually reduces their risk of CVD.
There is no good evidence that statins help women.
There is some evidence that in men who have had a heart attack statin may reduce the risk of CVD but you need to treat 100 people to potentially save one life and those odds don't stack up because more people are harmed by statin use that could possibly be helped by them.

We can achieve the benefits claimed for statins better by correcting magnesium, vitamin d, omega 3 deficiency states and without any side effects but we choose not to do that because more money can be made dispensing statins and the medicines required to deal with the side effects of statins.

Re: Statins

Because it is getting complicated I will try to reply to just two points Ted if that's OK.

Ted
If it was easy to reduce weight by reducing intake we would have no obesity epidemic.
What you are suggesting has been current policy for 30years and look where it has got us.
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results."

Rena
I believe the reason we have the obesity epidemic you refer to is because how and what we eat has changed. Food in the western world is so easy to obtain and still relatively cheap - it comes ready made and all we have to do is stuff it in our mouths. It is also presented to us in attractive easy forms by clever advertisers and the psychology surrounding food is also a complex subject. We do not expend the energy to negate the excess, result = laying down fat. It's more a lifestyle issue IMO and one that costs the NHS a lot of money all ways round.

Ted
Have a look at the role of melatonin and vitamin D in obesity and glucose metabolism. Weight gain and lethargy are symptoms of metabolic dsyfunction but not the cause of it. You are looking at the problem from the wrong perspective. You need to understand what cause people to lose control of their appetite and what causes them to become lethargic.

If you mix up symptoms with cause you will never get to solve the problem.

Rena

I understand what you are saying about vitamin D Ted and adequate vitamn D is vital.

Lethargy and inactivity, resulting in weight gain (better way round, I think) is not always a symptom of metabolic dysfunction - injury can result in enforced inactivity resulting in simple weight gain if you don't cut down on intake. It's not simpy a matter of losing control of appetite - its a matter of too much fuel in and not enough expendiure of stored resources, i.e. fat, as in my husband's case. In his case it is easily remedied now he is back on his feet.

Re: Statins

Look the vitamin supplement business is worth £13.6 billion a year, and this is what this is all about. See Here
We are living longer now than our forefathers, not because of supplements but because of our progress in medical science.
I have a blood test fortnightly and if I had a deficiency in vitamins my GP will prescribe them, like I take folic once a week to combat side effects of a dangerous drug I take.
I have every confidence in the medical team that look after me, they haven't made any mistakes so far.
As for vitamin D, you can overdose and it can become toxic, but very rare, but it shows the importance of a regular blood test.
If you are going to take supplements be very careful See Here
Having said that don't take everything you read on the Internet as right, quite often you don't get the real truth.
One other thing we can inherit many problems from our parents genes and no matter what we do we can not alter that.
See Here

Re: Statins

Ted I have as much food in my house now as when I was overweight.
I'm not hard up there always will be more in my fridge/freezer than I could eat over the next few months.

What is the difference between now and before when I was overweight?
You kidding yourself and others by repeating myths.

There is no difference in the food availability or amounts of foods available now as before when I was always hungry and unable to resist eating before meals.

The reason I no longer get hungry is because I eat more fat and less carbohydrate.

It's the type of foods you eat that control your hunger signals.

I used to believe what dietitians and health professionals told me. Now I know they are lying.
We know what puts the brakes on appetite and when we eat more saturated fat and have higher omega 3 levels we are better able to secrete the hormones that apply the brakes to appetite and because we don't feel so hungry so often we eat less.


TedI was polio disabled before when I was overweight and believed that calories in = calories out nonsense. I'm still disabled.

So why am I more active and mobile now than previously?

Ted I believe you are totally and absolutely wrong and you are simply repeating the flawed thinking that has got us into this mess.

]Perhaps if you read this paper you would understand why learning about mitochondrial dysfunction[/B] is imperative is you want to prevent weight regain after dieting.

Ted You are simply repeating the mistakes of the past.

If you want to help your husband to lose weight and become more active you need to understand how best to improve his metabolic flexibility so he is better able to burn the stored calories he carries in fat tissue.

What makes the body able to release calories from fat cells and burn them as fuel apart from starvation?
Try cutting out all wheat products and everything with sugar. It's glucose and everything that is broken down into glucose that forces your body to keep fat locked in fat cells.
To use those stored up calories that are in the fat cells you need to reduce blood glucose levels, that means lowering refined carbohydrate and starchy vegetable intakes and fruit juices.
This is the Swedish way of eating that I followed that allowed me to lose 1kg a week without calorie counting and without extra exercise.

Re: Statins

Just one more Ted - I missed this one.

Ted And the research that backs up the work of dieticians and GP's is remarkable in it's absence. If GP's and Dieticians were any good they would do themselves out of a job.
Just look at obesity among health professionals.
Laughable that any sane person takes them seriously.

I find your statement strange to say the least Ted. Do you know the difference between a SRD and a nutritionist? A SRD is not just the slimming lady. What about paediatric dietetics, enteral and parenteral feeding for starters - who do you think applies their knowledge, does the calculations and prescribes the regimens for these patients? Dietetics is a specialised discipline and is a very important component in patient care. Experienced dietetic input from an SRD can really make a huge difference to a patient.
As you will know GP's are generalists - they are not the experts in all disciplines, but they are the patient's first point of contact when they have a problem relating to their own health or that of their family members. Many health problems are resolved by a simple visit to the GP and he refers a problem on to a specialist when necessary - but you don't need me to tell you that.
I do not understand you when you say GPs are no good and if they were they would be out of a job.
I believe I am a sane person (this week at least ) and I take these professionals seriously whether they are obese or not (everyone is human ) - and they have more expertise than I do.

Just to finish, I think Wrinkley's last post is well reasoned, concise and informative, written in a non nerdy and uncomplicated way - thank you Arthur.

Re: Statins

But that is dwarfed by the size and power of the Pharmaceuticals Industry employing
165,000 staff, with an R&D spend of nearly £5bn and an
annual turnover of over £50bn
You've got to keep matters in perspective.

But they are not extending years with Quality of Life. Sure we can keep people alive in a vegetative state for 17 yrs or more. Money is no object when it comes to keeping people alive who have no quality of life whatsoever. Sure if you are looking forward to spending the last 15years of your life in a nursing care home then good luck to you. I'd rather remain out of those places and look after myself. Handing over responsibility for my wellbeing to doctors and health professionals had me in a wheelchair.
I'm not going back to that point of my life if I can possibly help it.

[ quote]
I have a blood test fortnightly and if I had a deficiency in vitamins my GP will prescribe them, like I take folic once a week to combat side effects of a dangerous drug I take.
I have every confidence in the medical team that look after me, they haven't made any mistakes so far.[/quote] So you know what your 25(OH)D level is?
I doubt either you or your doctor have a clue.

I do agree that most people should after taking an EFFECTIVE amount of vitamin D (5000iu/daily) for 12 weeks or so should check 25(OH)D LEVELS to make sure that is an effective amount for them. Some people require up to 10,000iu daily. (Equivalent to what human skin generates after full body midday summer sun exposure given the chance) And we know that amount is perfectly safe.

But the rate at which conditions like diabetes, Alzheimer's, cancer, osteoporosis, MS have increased over the last few years has nothing to do with genetic predisposition but everything to do with diet and lifestyle.
Genes certainly load the gun but it's diet and lifestyle that pulls the trigger.
We know how if you mother had Alzheimer's that will increase the risk of you developing the condition BUT only if you let it.
You don't have to allow the same thing to happen to you.

Think about what happened in Finland with Type I diabetes incidence.
They used to give their babies 2000iu/daily vitamin D3 from cod liver oil.
They stopped doing that.
Diabetes incidence rose by 80% as a result of the change.
So was that rise in Diabetes Type One incidence related to genetic predisposition or the removal of effective vitamin D supplementation?

Re: Statins

I have just read your latest post Ted and maybe it is better to let this rest now - it is easy to debate these matters until the cows come home - and people do, especially health professionals.

Hope to see you join in on some of the other threads.