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18-06-2020, 03:28 AM
11

Re: Racist & Religious?

Originally Posted by The Artful Todger ->
Trust me, you won't offend me!

I've been insulted by professionals, come to think of it people from just about all professions!

But just a couple of points. Racism doesn't equate to hate. Racism is rejecting that all races are equal one to another.

No individual race comprises of absolute Übermensch, no race populated by absolute Üontermensch - but in a given environment some races are better suited to than others.

Being judgemental? Why not? There is nothing wrong with being judgemental! Why not make decisions about people based on your experience and personal values?

In the (mostly NT) judgement is a caution rather than a prohibition. Luke 6:37 is a good example the basis of which is to avoid the iron rule 'cos it'll make s bad situation worse.

As for being racist, the word has become so distorted and abused as to become a joke but a joke in bad taste. Being racist or discriminating is not only human nature, it predated humanity in that it is a factor in breeding true in evolutionary terms and we are pre-wired to look for what we see as the best partner to mate with.

It means that we avoid people of a primitive appearance or in some other way not the sharpest knife in the drawer in which we sit. The bottom line is that all races are not equal. Pretending otherwise silly and guaranteed to result in tears.
Yes I do understand that it is very normal to judge. We need to keep safe from some people so need to judge them. We definitely judge to pick a mate. We all judge. There’s no doubt about it.

Lately many companies are changing their rules to reflect the changing times which is good. Why can’t all races be equal?

Anyway I do believe that extreme judgment becomes hate. When you are constantly pin pointing the differences it is hate and we do that to ourselves probably from fear. After 911 many Muslim’s were feared. After the war the Japanese were feared by many. Families pass down racism in some cases.

On the other site it’s probably natural to want to be with your own. We are like pack animals so feel more comfortable with people more like us.

Then there are those who believed in slavery and some who still do and that’s scary stuff. In some areas we are so advanced and in other areas we are so lacking.

I hope we are learn to live together so we actually live in harmony instead of war. Maybe it’s a fairytale belief but I can dream.
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18-06-2020, 12:09 PM
12

Re: Racist & Religious?

One thing rarely mentioned, in Race Hatred Discussions, is the desperate feelings a worker must have when his employer seeks to cut costs by bringing in cheaper Foreign Labour.

We've seen it happening, over the years, as many immigrants have been shipped in. partially to fill gaps.

I think that derogatory terms for the incomers ("Micks". "Polacks", "Coloureds", etc) have grown out of that sense of lost confidence in our employers, and a dislike of those who are ready to come over and work harder for less..

If you don't like something - give it a bad name!

(Note:- It's not just the UK where this happens.)
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18-06-2020, 01:22 PM
13

Re: Racist & Religious?

In my humble opinion there are a great many things that contirbute to racism, ignorance, fear, intolerance to name but three. A big one is misunderstanding, or perhaps I should say a persons particular view of something. In the Koran it states that persons of the Muslim faith must fight for their right to observe their religion no matter where they find themselves, now this doesn't mean fight in the literal sense, as we all know there are many ways to fight for something and women no doubt will be well aware of this, mums, how many times have you had your young child come to you, "mum please can I have some sweets?", now for what ever reason, you refuse, the child continues, it's driving you mad, eventually you relent, hand the child a packet of Polo mints and away it goes, it 'fought' for it's right to eat sweets and it won, yet nobody was hit, shot or stabbed, see what I mean?
Now sadly today this fight is taken literally,violence is increasingly being seen as an acceptable way of acheiving something, when clearly it is not.
Again racism, is it wrong to hate a person, or a group of people because they have become successful? of course it is, Hitler hated the Jews, in reality it would probably be more accurate to say he feared them, because they were an aquisitive group, they worked hard to make money and having got in they spent it wisely, nothing wrong in that.
Look at South Africa, the white man built up the country by hard work, the blacks didn't want to know, yet there was nothing stopping them doing it, they simply didn't want to put in the effort, yet as we saw, when it was all done and money being made, they turned on the white farmers, brutally killing them and raping the white women. Having got what they wanted they sat back and let it all fall apart once more.
Just before Christmas my job took me all over the country and I met all kinds of people, many of them Eastern Europeans, I decided to try and work out why they all came here, often to the annoyance of our own people, what I found not only amazed me, but gave me a much better understanding of why they do what they do.
They know to a greater extent that they are being exploited, but they still earn more in a week over here than a lot could earn in a month back home, they want to better themselves and ultimately, a lot of them want to return home, the money they earn here will greatly enhance their lives back home, you can't really blame them, it's only what we did in the 80's when loads of construction workers went to Germany.
One evening I was sitting outside my hotel having a smoke and I got chatting to a nice young girl from one of these countries. She told me how she had been sent here by her parents when she was 14, some 10 years ago when her country's government were trying to stop people leaving. She'd stayed with a relative but on turning 16 had been told to make her own way in life. She'd waited on in cafe's, collected glasses in bars and cleaned floors to support herself, one day she hoped to return home, but the average wage in her own country was around £50 a month.
We chatted for a while and I asked her if she had anything she wanted to ask me, she asked what I did for a living, so I told her, she than asked if I would tell her how much I earned, at that point I was earning £1000 a week. On hearing this she was stunned, "you're a very very rich man" she exclaimed, I didn't think I was, she then went on to tell me that in her country the only people earning that kind of money were government officials!
There is, as my grandma used to say, good and bad in all walks of life, be it men, or women, blacks, whites or other races, christians, jews, muslims, or any other creed or religion, there will always be good and bad. we need to be tolerant of course we do, but tolerance should not be seen as weakness, and tolerance, like many other things in life has to be a two way street, if you want me to have respect for you, then you must have respect for me, likewise if you want me to be tolerant to you, then you must be tolerant with me, we all make mistakes and we need to recognise them and learn from them, not put our heads down and charge blindly on.
Yes, no doubt we do do things that agrieve certain members of the Muslim community, but perhaps if they made more of an effort to fit in then we'd be more accepting of them, demanding a mosque on every street corner is not the way to go, neither as we saw recently during the lockdown when some of them chose to ignore the rules to celebrate the end of Ramadan, is putting themselves above everyone else likely to endear them to us, in fact one of the best things they could do would be to hand over those of their religion who engage in sexual activity with children, this would have to give them more credibility in their claim to want to 'fit in' over here.
Black people to could do the same, rather than moaning that they are being unfairly treated when they are stopped and searched, let them who know who amongst them are the ones dealing drugs or shooting and stabbing people, inform on them, show that not all black people condone violence.
How far must this all go, if we bow to the demands to remove all our statues, and other things that go back to our days of the slave trade, then must we not also get rid of the majority of black people? Britain is an island, the black people by and large,are mostly descended from those slaves who came here hundreds of years ago, blacks are not indiginous to Britain, so if we are to bow to their demands must we not also remove the majority of these individuals, because let us not forget, they too, by their very being here are also a reminder of our slave trading past. How far do you go with it all, yes we need tolerance, yes we need a greater acceptance of all things different, but as I said earlier, it has to be on an open playing field. as someone once said, 'Lord grant me the strength to change the things I can change, and the wisdom to know and accept the things I cannot change'
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21-06-2020, 03:06 AM
14

Re: Racist & Religious?

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
Because extremist right wing sympathisers have infiltrated religions in order to spread their hate messages.

Which religion?
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21-06-2020, 05:50 AM
15

Re: Racist & Religious?

Originally Posted by sparky ->
In my humble opinion there are a great many things that contirbute to racism, ignorance, fear, intolerance to name but three. A big one is misunderstanding, or perhaps I should say a persons particular view of something. In the Koran it states that persons of the Muslim faith must fight for their right to observe their religion no matter where they find themselves, now this doesn't mean fight in the literal sense, as we all know there are many ways to fight for something and women no doubt will be well aware of this, mums, how many times have you had your young child come to you, "mum please can I have some sweets?", now for what ever reason, you refuse, the child continues, it's driving you mad, eventually you relent, hand the child a packet of Polo mints and away it goes, it 'fought' for it's right to eat sweets and it won, yet nobody was hit, shot or stabbed, see what I mean?

Now sadly today this fight is taken literally,violence is increasingly being seen as an acceptable way of acheiving something, when clearly it is not.

Again racism, is it wrong to hate a person, or a group of people because they have become successful? of course it is, Hitler hated the Jews, in reality it would probably be more accurate to say he feared them, because they were an aquisitive group, they worked hard to make money and having got in they spent it wisely, nothing wrong in that.

Look at South Africa, the white man built up the country by hard work, the blacks didn't want to know, yet there was nothing stopping them doing it, they simply didn't want to put in the effort, yet as we saw, when it was all done and money being made, they turned on the white farmers, brutally killing them and raping the white women. Having got what they wanted they sat back and let it all fall apart once more.

Just before Christmas my job took me all over the country and I met all kinds of people, many of them Eastern Europeans, I decided to try and work out why they all came here, often to the annoyance of our own people, what I found not only amazed me, but gave me a much better understanding of why they do what they do.

They know to a greater extent that they are being exploited, but they still earn more in a week over here than a lot could earn in a month back home, they want to better themselves and ultimately, a lot of them want to return home, the money they earn here will greatly enhance their lives back home, you can't really blame them, it's only what we did in the 80's when loads of construction workers went to Germany.

One evening I was sitting outside my hotel having a smoke and I got chatting to a nice young girl from one of these countries. She told me how she had been sent here by her parents when she was 14, some 10 years ago when her country's government were trying to stop people leaving. She'd stayed with a relative but on turning 16 had been told to make her own way in life. She'd waited on in cafe's, collected glasses in bars and cleaned floors to support herself, one day she hoped to return home, but the average wage in her own country was around £50 a month.

We chatted for a while and I asked her if she had anything she wanted to ask me, she asked what I did for a living, so I told her, she than asked if I would tell her how much I earned, at that point I was earning £1000 a week. On hearing this she was stunned, "you're a very very rich man" she exclaimed, I didn't think I was, she then went on to tell me that in her country the only people earning that kind of money were government officials!

There is, as my grandma used to say, good and bad in all walks of life, be it men, or women, blacks, whites or other races, christians, jews, muslims, or any other creed or religion, there will always be good and bad. we need to be tolerant of course we do, but tolerance should not be seen as weakness, and tolerance, like many other things in life has to be a two way street, if you want me to have respect for you, then you must have respect for me, likewise if you want me to be tolerant to you, then you must be tolerant with me, we all make mistakes and we need to recognise them and learn from them, not put our heads down and charge blindly on.

Yes, no doubt we do do things that agrieve certain members of the Muslim community, but perhaps if they made more of an effort to fit in then we'd be more accepting of them, demanding a mosque on every street corner is not the way to go, neither as we saw recently during the lockdown when some of them chose to ignore the rules to celebrate the end of Ramadan, is putting themselves above everyone else likely to endear them to us, in fact one of the best things they could do would be to hand over those of their religion who engage in sexual activity with children, this would have to give them more credibility in their claim to want to 'fit in' over here.

Black people to could do the same, rather than moaning that they are being unfairly treated when they are stopped and searched, let them who know who amongst them are the ones dealing drugs or shooting and stabbing people, inform on them, show that not all black people condone violence.

How far must this all go, if we bow to the demands to remove all our statues, and other things that go back to our days of the slave trade, then must we not also get rid of the majority of black people? Britain is an island, the black people by and large,are mostly descended from those slaves who came here hundreds of years ago, blacks are not indiginous to Britain, so if we are to bow to their demands must we not also remove the majority of these individuals, because let us not forget, they too, by their very being here are also a reminder of our slave trading past. How far do you go with it all, yes we need tolerance, yes we need a greater acceptance of all things different, but as I said earlier, it has to be on an open playing field. as someone once said, 'Lord grant me the strength to change the things I can change, and the wisdom to know and accept the things I cannot change'
An interesting post Sparky, almost exactly my own thoughts on all that's so sadly happening in the world today.

Emboldened text – another agreement with what you write, see my signature which is very similar.

I hope you will not mind me putting in paragraph spaces? This makes it so much easier to read and is less off-putting than a large block of text. Just my opinion though, from a working life in the printing trade and graphic design.
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21-06-2020, 09:44 AM
16

Re: Racist & Religious?

Originally Posted by sparky ->
how many times have you had your young child come to you, "mum please can I have some sweets?", now for what ever reason, you refuse, the child continues, it's driving you mad, eventually you relent, hand the child a packet of Polo mints and away it goes, it 'fought' for it's right to eat sweets and it won, yet nobody was hit, shot or stabbed, see what I mean?
This overlooks the point that the mother fought for her right to save money, try to avoid the child partaking in excessive sugar intake, and instilling discipline in the mother/child relationship.
She lost though, at the expense of doing "the right things" and will feel disappointed/frustrated/angry.

Originally Posted by sparky ->
Now sadly today this fight is taken literally,violence is increasingly being seen as an acceptable way of acheiving something, when clearly it is not.
, true but if history teaches us anything, it's that this is natural human behaviour.

Originally Posted by sparky ->
Again racism, is it wrong to hate a person, or a group of people because they have become successful? of course it is,
But there is the counter-argument of whether it is right or wrong for someone (or a group of people) to do things which they know is/will be unpopular to many other people. One could cite that they are "hated" because they choose to do things which make them "hated". How many times to we look at (eg) the rich and self-serving few and feel angry?

Originally Posted by sparky ->
Black people to could do the same, rather than moaning that they are being unfairly treated when they are stopped and searched, let them who know who amongst them are the ones dealing drugs or shooting and stabbing people, inform on them, show that not all black people condone violence.
Nice idea, but would you hand your own child over to the police if you discovered they had driven too fast or shoplifted a pack of sweets? What is the precise threshold?

Originally Posted by sparky ->
Britain is an island, the black people by and large,are mostly descended from those slaves who came here hundreds of years ago, blacks are not indiginous to Britain, so if we are to bow to their demands must we not also remove the majority of these individuals, because let us not forget, they too, by their very being here are also a reminder of our slave trading past.
Not entirely sure about the history in terms of numbers. But the question is surely "at what stage/ how many generations need to pass before someone or a group of people with their views become indigenous?" After all, you only need to look back at what's happened over the last couple of thousand of years to determine that there is only a tiny number of people in the UK who could genuinely be called "indigenous". These isles have been invaded many many times and the religion, politics, ethics, ways of life have been forged mostly from the invaders, despite skirmishes and protestations from those already settled here. This has always been the case and still remains to be the case now.
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21-06-2020, 09:52 AM
17

Re: Racist & Religious?

Originally Posted by Muddy ->
Which religion?
Historically, probably all of them. There are very few religions which have expanded successfully by following peaceful means throughout their history.

As anyone who sells anything knows, one of the most powerful techniques for success is to rubbish/ridicule what's already on the market and other competitors before pushing home the point that what you have on offer is far superior (even though it will probably come at a higher price).
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21-06-2020, 10:06 AM
18

Re: Racist & Religious?

Unfortunately, sometimes to get a point across, a rent a mob is unintentionally employed, but, traditionally, the mob operates beyond the auspices of the "Point" purveyor.
Anything can happen when folks congregate.
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25-06-2020, 07:21 AM
19

Re: Racist & Religious?

Originally Posted by Muddy ->
Which religion?
Mostly religions that call themselves "Christian" .."Jewish" and "Muslim" I have come across some pretty heavy right wing and racist fanatics in all three. I have heard members of all three say they think people should be exterminated. That's my experience. I don't speak for anybody else. I can't cop religion of any kind.
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25-06-2020, 07:52 AM
20

Re: Racist & Religious?

Religion does seem to attract fanatics and unbalanced people.
Something must be lacking in their lives that they need this crutch to lean on .
Now I don’t wish to offend good people who truly believe and who live their lives harmlessly according to their principles.

Indeed as someone else pointed out another thread
Jesus ‘s Sermon on the Mount is basically a guide line for living a good life .
But you don’t have to subscribe to any particular religion in order to do that .

Belief is a private thing there is no need to go and shout it from the rooftops ,impose it on others or murder people in the name of God .
 
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