Re: Canada-style deal

If the government does fall, it will be the fault of one particular woman.

If May should, by some miracle, stay in the country will be finished.

If Compo should form a government, the country will be finished.

On the other hand, if May (or a more competent PM) respects the referendum decision and gets us out without a deal, the Conservatives may regain the support of the majority of the country.

We live in interesting times!

Re: Canada-style deal

I certainly agree with that.

Re: Canada-style deal

Anyone who wants a No-Deal scenario as their preferred outcome can be dismissed as a crank.

Anyone who suggests a No Deal scenario is a distinct possibility and plans accordingly can be considered pragmatic.


If you take yourself back to the Brexit campaign you will remember the whole focus of the campaign was about leaving with a bespoke deal and then going out in to the world to bring home new deals from new marketplaces tailored to the UK's specific requirements.

There was even talk of a deal with the EU being easy to negotiate as we were an existing member and compliant on all frnts with EU rules......So much for predictions!

It was never the intention to leave without a deal but to leave with a good deal.

Unfortunately a number of factors have contrived to work against our negotiating position.
1) The failure to form a cross party consensus and working group on our negotiating position.
2) Tory infighting
3) May's disasterous general election
4) EU antipathy and intransigence
5) General incompetence from the government and our negotiators
6) A distinct lack of understanding across all society of the depth and breadth of the task at hand
7) Invoking Article 50 before knowing our negotiating position
8) The vitriolic Remain campaign to undermine the referendum result and deny the express will of the electorate from politicians, institutions , business and Remain voters

Brexit is proving difficult. But Brexit MUST happen and a deal is what will make Brexit work. It's what the people tasked the Gov't to deliver.

I'm not overly bothered about the minutae of the deal. It's beyond my pay grade.

Getting bogged down with the minutest detail is what Remainers try to do to muddy the waters but that is for the negotiators to fret about.

Re: Canada-style deal

I agree with most of what you say, but I don't recollect anything on the referendum voting sheet about a deal.

Re: Canada-style deal

Which is why I didn't say it was on the voting sheet.

I said the 'campaign' was about leaving with a bespoke deal

Re: Canada-style deal

I thought both the remain and brexit campaigns were totally distorted, biased and inaccurate. I made up my own mind without referring to the propaganda. My view is that politicians never deliver on promises.

The campaigns were smoke and mirrors. We knew at the time that we didn't have negotiators of the right calibre. The Tory leader who initiated this left without a trace. Why does nobody blame him?

Society has nothing to to do with it other than voting for it.

If families have fallen out over the issue we can't expect the government to agree.

TM was under massive pressure to invoke article 50 asap.

Re: Canada-style deal

All campaigns are biased, as are political parties and politicians. Nothing new there.

If you made up your mind despite all the lies, counter-lies, innacuracies and crystal ball gazing I'm guessing every one of the 32million voters did the same.

Many of them didn't need the campaign to know what they would be voting...on both sides of the argument.
Some folk had been waiting for decades for the opportunity to vote Leave. No amount of Remainer lies and fudging of the truth and fear mongering was going to change that.

Many people simply did not like what the EU was becoming and how little heed it paid to the small voice of it's people on a local level. It was all big politics, grand gestures and contemptuous diktats.... Not what your average Brit relates to.

Re: Canada-style deal

Good post, I agree entirely.

Re: Canada-style deal

This is perfectly true. That's why I voted anyway.

In addition to the above, many Brits didn't like the way France was being allowed activities that we didn't have.
Specifically, their farmers received generous handouts and their fishing fleets were allowed to plunder our waters.

There was also the matter of the UK contributing more money to the EU than the French - we are the second biggest contributor, as has been said here.

It was clear very early on that the EU was being run for the benefit of the Germans and the French.

Re: Canada-style deal

I was responding to the post where you said that the leave campaign promised a bespoke deal.

In terms of your last para, that's also how I feel about politics on a national level. Leaving the EU won't give people on a local level any more say than they had before. But it will make their daily lives a lot harder if there is no deal and we end up with months (or more) of disruption. My main concern is people who are elderly and vulnerable and may be hit by higher prices or meds shortages. EU citizens already uncertain about their situation may choose to up sticks. Food and power are my other concerns. A no deal is going to most hurt those who cannot help themselves.

It's probably comparable to a war in terms of disruption to supplies. They can plan for it but it will be a major shock.

You have said yourself that it is a bad thing.

I've said that I can live with brexit if they do it properly and don't cause the above. That would require a pragmatic deal and several years of transition to minimise any negative effects on the economy. I have no idea why people are in such a hurry about something so major.